Scoutmaster Conference Review

[WeeWillie]

OK. The SM signs off on the SMC and brings the Orienteering issue to the BOR. The BOR denies the Scout's advancement based on Scout Spirit as expressed in the Scout Law and allows the Scout to re-apply for advancement at the next BOR. Then what? A new SMC?

Advancement is not an entitlement.

By the way, the Scout and his parents accepted the SMC / BOR decision.

[evmori]

OK. The SM signs off on the SMC and brings the Orienteering issue to the BOR. The BOR denies the Scout's advancement based on Scout Spirit as expressed in the Scout Law and allows the Scout to re-apply for advancement at the next BOR. Then what? A new SMC?

Advancement is not an entitlement.

By the way, the Scout and his parents accepted the SMC / BOR decision.

Why would another SMC need to be signed off? One already was.

[ASM-142]

OK. The SM signs off on the SMC and brings the Orienteering issue to the BOR. The BOR denies the Scout's advancement based on Scout Spirit as expressed in the Scout Law and allows the Scout to re-apply for advancement at the next BOR. Then what? A new SMC?

Advancement is not an entitlement.

By the way, the Scout and his parents accepted the SMC / BOR decision.

How could the BOR deny the scout for Scout Spirit when the SM already signed off on this? If it was not signed then there should not of been a BOR for advancement to begin with.

[Lynda J]

I agree with ASM. If a boy has a SMC and the SM signs off on all the requirements then the boy goes to the BOR and between the SMC and BOR the SM changes his mind it isn't fair to the boy, and it isn't fair to the Board. And why would a SM allow a BOR to be set for a boy knowing full well that all the requirements haven't been met. Here again I would be looking straight back at the SM. Why did the SM sign off on the requirements if he did not feel the boy had completed them . Doing this is simply sending the wrong message to the Scout.

By the way, the Scout and his parents accepted the SMC / BOR decision

.

Maybe they simply don't know that they have another option. If they are in a troop where the SM is a total control freak they may not know that there are BSA policies in place to protect boys from unfair actions.

[outfoxed86]

WeeWillie
If the scout spirit wasnt signed off then a BOR will not take place.You as scoutmaster would need to sit with the boys and dicuss with them why Scout spirit wasnt signed off. Then together talk about how things can be fixed.
Wayne

[evmori]

OK. The SM signs off on the SMC and brings the Orienteering issue to the BOR. The BOR denies the Scout's advancement based on Scout Spirit as expressed in the Scout Law and allows the Scout to re-apply for advancement at the next BOR. Then what? A new SMC?

Advancement is not an entitlement.

By the way, the Scout and his parents accepted the SMC / BOR decision.

How could the BOR deny the scout for Scout Spirit when the SM already signed off on this? If it was not signed then there should not of been a BOR for advancement to begin with.

I'm with ASM-142.

Unless something exceptionally serious (the Scout committed a major felony) happened between the time the Scout Spirit requirement was signed & the BOR, the BOR can't deny the Scout to advanced based on Scout Spirit.

And if the parents agree with the BOR, then it sounds like requirements are just being pencil-whipped instead of completed. Major problem.

[JazerNorth]

Unless something exceptionally serious (the Scout committed a major felony) happened between the time the Scout Spirit requirement was signed & the BOR, the BOR can't deny the Scout to advanced based on Scout Spirit.

Even then the boy should still get the rank. Why? Because he earned it. He fulfilled all of the requirements for it. The next rank is another thing as he has not earned it yet. The Rank are not an award, but an accomplishment. Therefore, if all requirements are met and passed off and the boys does something really bad, he still gets the rank. He earned the rank, therefore he deserves the rank.

[WeeWillie]

A clarification. The SMC recommendation to the BOR was that the Scout not be advanced. Scout Spirit was not signed since the incident was a clear violation of several points of the Scout Law and a serious safety issue. The BOR concurred and the Scout was held up one month so the he would not advance ahead of the Scouts who could not complete the course because of the incident. I would have made it two months but that wasn't my decision.

You earn Scout Spirit by your actions.

[scubascout]

Last meeting, I asked my SM for a SMC next meeting, So he pulls me over to the side for a few minutes. We start talking, from experience, the conversation sounds like an SMC. At the end of the talk, he took my book, signed off for the SMC and said I know your ready for Star, I have no doubts

[Nuts4Scouts]

The SMC recommendation to the BOR was that the Scout not be advanced. Scout Spirit was not signed since the incident was a clear violation of several points of the Scout Law and a serious safety issue.

A BOR should never have been convened. A boy is sent to a BOR when all of his requirements have been signed off. If you did not sign off on Scout Spirit then he was not ready for a BOR.

To me, it sounds like you used the BOR as a kind of sentencing hearing on the incident. That is not what a BOR is for.

The boys should have been talked to at the time of the incident. Once home there should have been a conference with the boys & their parents & disciplinary measures layed out (including a wait on the sign off of Scout Spirit) at that time. This issue should not have been sent to a BOR!

[ASM-142]

... the Scout was held up one month so the he would not advance ahead of the Scouts ...

The advancement of one scout is not dependent upon the other scouts. For this scout, the Scout Spirit was not signed off and that is reason enough not for advancement. No BOR is needed for this if the SM addressed this issue. A BOR could be convened for a non-advancing scout and not just for advancement but it looks like this was already addressed and a BOR was not needed.

[mhjacobson]

SMC are held for four reasons:

1. normal course of advancement'
2. to discuss why there is a lack of advancement
3. at least once with every scout every six months
4. to deal with a problem situation

Therefore, the very fact that there was a SMC held for a non-advancement reason, does not mean that the scout can advance to BOR. Since the SMC was held for reasons other than advancement means that the SMC sign-off in the advancement section should not have been signed.