Eagle Projects

Information to help with the rank of Eagle Scout.

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Eagle Projects

Postby smtroop168 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:28 pm

This is my first post so bear with me.

The question is use of power tools on Eagle Projects. I know chain saws are out but I've seen some council information say power drills are okay as long as the scout is trained and supervised. The G2SS chart has power tools as okay for BSA and older. Our District has always said no to scouts using power tools.

Opinions? Based on my reading of other topics, I know that they're out there. :D
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Postby OldGreyBear » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:46 pm

I was unaware a District could surplant the G2SS, then again, lots of things happen that I wasnt aware 'they" could do. I don't think your disitrct can ban power tools, but if the pwers to be dont want them and no one wants to confront them, then sometimes stuff happens.

To contest this, I would start small. If assembling playground equipment, can a scout use a power screwdriver? One with a battery pack? Is that ok? What about a drill fit with a screw driver blade? Then what about a circular saw? If the scout is in the local Voc-Ed school in carpentry he may be safer than an executive who last touched a power saw awhile ago. In the Eagle Wookbook under the section Project Details it says ". Describe any safety hazards you might face, and explain how you will ensure the safety of those carrying out the project." if the scout describes the hazards, such as use of power tools and then lays out who will use them and what type of checkout tool users will go through, then it would seem to be ok.

Just my thoughts
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Re: Eagle Projects

Postby RWSmith » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:34 pm

smtroop168 wrote:Our District has always said no to scouts using power tools.


Yeah, what OGB just said... Scouts? No. Adults? Yes. Suggestion: Write up and attach a "Safety Plan" to the ESLSP Application... include all applicable MSDS sheets, safety rules, required PPE, on-site Safety Talks, etc.
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Postby ASM-142 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:52 pm

I have had scouts attach the G2SS along with the attachment Age Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activieswith their Eagle write-up that way it is easier to defend the use of power tools by Boy Scouts.
If it is not written down then it is not an official rule
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Eagle Projects

Postby smtroop168 » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:20 am

Thanks for the replies. I'll bring this up at the next District meeting to see what they say.
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Postby wagionvigil » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:21 am

They have little choice. They cannot override the G2SS.
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Postby FrankJ » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:31 am

I not sure adding additional safety requirements would be overriding the G2SS. One source could be the state laws or council's insurance on the subject.

A lot of times a 'rule' was actually some ones opinion that was never challenged and gets ensconced over time. Talk to some one on the council's health & safety committee with G2SS in hand. They are the ones who's interpretations matter the most for a safety issue.
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G2SS

Postby riverwalk » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:20 pm

For a District to go beyond the Guide isn't wrong, just the way they want to address safety. The Guide offers minimums and absolutes (the Policy statements). But any group can go the next step in the interest of members. Granted, one may need these devices for their Project. RW offers a great approach.

One local example deals with approvals for Cub overnighters. Other Councils near me accept State Parks as suitable for this. My Council does not, so we're working to address this. Gotta make lemonade with the lemons you are limited to.
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Postby scubascout » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:19 am

THe GTSS says "Chainsaws and mechanical log splitters may be authorized for use only by trained individuals over the age of 18, using proper protective gear in accordance with local laws. "
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Postby ilduncans » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:17 pm

The G2SS is quite ambiguous on this topic, and one suspects that this is for good reason.

In my read of the current print edition (2006 printing), as well as an exhaustive search of the current online copy (last updated 05-Apr-2006), there is no mention of power tools beyond the two aforementioned passages – first dealing with chainsaws and splitters, and the second in the insert to the print edition entitled “Age Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities”

The first passage is very specific, but does not address the more general topic of other power tools. The second, is so vague as to be almost, but not quite useless. “Power tools” as shown in the graphic could be interpreted to include or exclude almost anything. The difference between a power screwdriver and a circular saw (of what size?) are obvious. One would be hard-pressed to argue that --every-- power tool was really age-appropriate for a 10.5-year-old.

So what’s the solution? A little ambiguity to give local authority a chance to do what makes sense for their situation.

What does the G2SS say about ambiguity in the G2SS? Two good passages from the Preface:

“Unit leaders should be aware of state or local government regulations that supersede Boy Scouts of America policies and guidelines.
In situations not specifically covered in this guide, activity planners should evaluate the risk or potential risk of harm, and respond with action plans based on common sense, community standards, the Boy Scout motto, and safety policies and practices commonly prescribed for the activity by experienced providers and practitioners.”

Age could be a critical factor, but others are likely of greater import, including training, local laws or ordinances on child safety, and of course, the experiences and decisions of your local council’s risk management committee.

It is possible that you’ve got a Scouting professional that has run amuck and started making wanton policy decisions on relatively obscure corners of the policy and procedures of the BSA … but not likely. Your local council definitely is able to make additional policies and procedures, as they deem necessary to further clarify and implement the program as defined by national. (In fact, if you really dig into this, it is quite likely that you’ll find out that your local council has far _more_ policies and procedures than national has. As it should be, imo).

Who in your district (by title or role) says no to power tools on Eagle projects? How is this communicated? (Preemptively by policy statement, or in response to an Eagle project proposal? Or …?)
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