CIT at camp

[hacimsaalk]

next summer ( of 08 ) i am thinking of becoming a counselor at camp. i have heard different things about having to be a CIT before you can be a full time couselor. is there any age at which you can just skip that and become a counselor? if you have enough training in a certain subject, could you just skip it all and go right to being a conselor?

is there anything the BSA has to say?

thanks

micah

[scubascout]

[quote]REQUIREMENTS FOR MERIT BADGE COUNSELORS

To qualify as a Merit Badge Counselor, you must:

Be at least 18 years old.
Be proficient in the merit badge subject by vocation or avocation.
Be able to work with Scout-age boys.
Be registered with the Boy Scouts of America
Complete and submit the BSA Merit Badge Counselor Information Form (No. 33405), indicating which Merit badges you wish to counsel. [/quote]

usscouts.com

[scoutaholic]

next summer ( of 08 ) i am thinking of becoming a counselor at camp. i have heard different things about having to be a CIT before you can be a full time couselor. is there any age at which you can just skip that and become a counselor? if you have enough training in a certain subject, could you just skip it all and go right to being a conselor?
...

As scubascout already mentioned, you have to be 18 and register as a counselor and know the subject. This is for a MB Counselor. This is not the same as a camp counselor.

Most camps have adults who are registered counselors to sign the cards, but most of the actual skill training is done by younger boys. The skills are taught by a camp counselor (who hopefully knows what he is teaching, but I've seen some who don't). Then the boys pass off the skills with the adult MB counselor. I've seen some camps where the youth camp counselor does all the teaching and passing, he signs the card, and then rubber stamps it with an official camp stamp.

I don't know how the Counselor In Training program works everywhere, but this is what I understand of how they do it at our counsel camps. A Scout can volunteer as a CIT for the summer when he is 14. This is an unpaid position. He works right alongside the other staff, and gets the experience. The only monetary benefit of doing this is that he gets paid $10/week more the following year if he is hired as an official camp counselor. There is no requirement that a counselor must serve as CIT first. I think it just gives him experience, and then the camp director already knows him and is more likely to hire him the following year.

[Mrw]

You should call the local Council office of the camp you want to work at and ask about requirements.

[WeeWillie]

Micah

Have you every heard of the Principle of Supply & Demand?

In order to run a sucessful summer camp a council needs staff with both general and specific skills. Aquatics, and Climbing require very specific skills. If there are a lot of qualified Scouts applying for summer camp positions, then competition for those positions will be very high. On the other hand if there are not a lot of qualified Scouts applying for positions, then competition will be low. Council may even have to recruit from non-Scouts to fill positions.

The Program Director and other adults will use CIT as an opportunity to evaluate your capabilities and see how they fit with their needs. It will give you an opportunity to show your stuff and earn merit badges. Besides helping with advancement, those badges will help your chances of obtaining a paid position. If they are short nature instructors, what badges will help you get a paid nature instructor position next year?

You may also decide after being a CIT, you don't want to be a paid staffer.

[Mad Dog]

Micah is interested in being a CIT ( Counselor in Training) not a Merit Badge Councelor. At our camp CIT's are 14 - 15. They do not get paid but do get to attend classes for one merit badge per week. We have had a number of boys from our troop participate in the CIT program and all have enjoyed it. A number of boys continued on to paid positions once they turned 16. The more skills you have (CPR Cert. etc.) the more valuable you will be to the camp and the more likely you wil be selected to participate. Being a CIT is a good way to work on your leadership and communications skills.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Also if the camp has any openings left for entry level staff, they will pick someone that has already been a CIT at the camp before picking you. It's just the pecking order sometimes. But I also agree with the Supply/Demand theory.

Check with the council of the camps you are interested in.

[hacimsaalk]

[quote="Mad Dog"]. The more skills you have (CPR Cert. etc.) the more valuable you will be to the camp and the more likely you wil be selected to participate. quote]

well, by the end of school, i should be a state certified/licensed EMT-basic, so everything medical would be my thing. i was thinking maybe that would get me in for the first aid area -first aid, e-prep, etc. without haveing to be a CIT.

i understand that i cant be a counselor till im 18. i was wondering about at camp, thats all. i just really dont like the idea of wasting(some may not call it this) a summer away from my home troop, just so i can get "accustomed" to the program. i would rather either be told "yes, we'll hire you", or "no, we already have all the positions you're qualified for filled". i really dont like the midle (which to me is being a CIT).

[vpalango]

. The more skills you have (CPR Cert. etc.) the more valuable you will be to the camp and the more likely you wil be selected to participate. quote]

well, by the end of school, i should be a state certified/licensed EMT-basic, so everything medical would be my thing. i was thinking maybe that would get me in for the first aid area -first aid, e-prep, etc. without haveing to be a CIT.

i understand that i cant be a counselor till im 18. i was wondering about at camp, thats all. i just really dont like the idea of wasting(some may not call it this) a summer away from my home troop, just so i can get "accustomed" to the program. i would rather either be told "yes, we'll hire you", or "no, we already have all the positions you're qualified for filled". i really dont like the midle (which to me is being a CIT).

Micah (before I go to far, I'm not trying to be negative with this post, it just might sound that way as I don't know how else to put this.)

In almost every camp staff program out there, the progression from CIT->Staff is a practice that has gone on for a long time. Unless you are an adult member of a specialty like the first aid staff (note the Adult part), I unfortunately think it's extremely unlikely that you will be able to short-cut the process.

You have an impressive set of skills and certifications, but you still are under 18, and another staffer might ask a question like "Why didn't he earn a position on staff through a CIT year like I had to?", and feel that they are getting unfair treatment.

In reality, the CIT year is part of the weeding out process for staff, and it's very difficult to avoid the process as it's considered a requirement for membership, and in reality it's a summer long "interview" for perspective staff members. Think of it from the camp staff's perspective, they are in many ways a large extended family for the summer. The perspective staffer needs to fit in to that family, as you live with these people for most of the summer. Unless you are filling an absolute critical need position, that can't be filled any other way, most camps want to have a trial-run with someone as a CIT before offering a full staff position.

I realize this isn't what you might want to do, but I think it's the reality of the situation.

YIS,

[hacimsaalk]

. The more skills you have (CPR Cert. etc.) the more valuable you will be to the camp and the more likely you wil be selected to participate. quote]

well, by the end of school, i should be a state certified/licensed EMT-basic, so everything medical would be my thing. i was thinking maybe that would get me in for the first aid area -first aid, e-prep, etc. without haveing to be a CIT.

i understand that i cant be a counselor till im 18. i was wondering about at camp, thats all. i just really dont like the idea of wasting(some may not call it this) a summer away from my home troop, just so i can get "accustomed" to the program. i would rather either be told "yes, we'll hire you", or "no, we already have all the positions you're qualified for filled". i really dont like the midle (which to me is being a CIT).

Micah (before I go to far, I'm not trying to be negative with this post, it just might sound that way as I don't know how else to put this.)

In almost every camp staff program out there, the progression from CIT->Staff is a practice that has gone on for a long time. Unless you are an adult member of a specialty like the first aid staff (note the Adult part), I unfortunately think it's extremely unlikely that you will be able to short-cut the process.

You have an impressive set of skills and certifications, but you still are under 18, and another staffer might ask a question like "Why didn't he earn a position on staff through a CIT year like I had to?", and feel that they are getting unfair treatment.

In reality, the CIT year is part of the weeding out process for staff, and it's very difficult to avoid the process as it's considered a requirement for membership, and in reality it's a summer long "interview" for perspective staff members. Think of it from the camp staff's perspective, they are in many ways a large extended family for the summer. The perspective staffer needs to fit in to that family, as you live with these people for most of the summer. Unless you are filling an absolute critical need position, that can't be filled any other way, most camps want to have a trial-run with someone as a CIT before offering a full staff position.

I realize this isn't what you might want to do, but I think it's the reality of the situation.

YIS,

i appreciate the view from a new perspective. i really am toying with the idea. im not sure i want to be a cit next year or get a job outside of scouts. im pretty sure i could secure a fulltime job that will pay minimum wage.

and ive considered the fact that if i work at camp all summer, i wont really be using my EMT like i want to, as i wont be able to run with any ambulace service. and quite possibly, i will be a firefighter too by then.

micah

[cballman]

Micah something to also remember is that to be a CIT at some camps the req. are " to be at least 15 years old, a Star scout, and have a signed statement saying you can be a CIT from your unit leader AND your parents or legal guardian. " Now if you qualify you would not have to be a CIT but go directly to be a counsler. but then every camp has different rules as to what and how their program works. If you want to work at camp then I would go for it. not just haphazardly but put forth the effort to excel at what you want to do at camp and then go to the interveiw totaly prepared.

[OldGreyBear]

Isn't the world of bureacracy wounderful? I don't know how old Micah is, but he says he is going to be an EMT by the end of school. So, I would say he is the 16-17 range. Maybe 15. He can't be a merit badge counselor until he is 18. So, lets just say he wants to work at camp and ends up in the kitchen. Then, when the camp health officer themselves is injured and cant respond, the first words out of the First Aid Merit badge counselor when learning of the situation says "hey, get that kid who wahes dishes, he is an EMT!"

Life is good

[hacimsaalk]

Isn't the world of bureacracy wounderful? I don't know how old Micah is, but he says he is going to be an EMT by the end of school. So, I would say he is the 16-17 range. Maybe 15. He can't be a merit badge counselor until he is 18. So, lets just say he wants to work at camp and ends up in the kitchen. Then, when the camp health officer themselves is injured and cant respond, the first words out of the First Aid Merit badge counselor when learning of the situation says "hey, get that kid who wahes dishes, he is an EMT!"

Life is good

ill be 16 before EMT is over ( per state reg's). i wasnt looking to be a counselor, merely staff who can sign off/help with MB's.

and, just on a little side note about the kitchen, there is a set of twin brothers that runs the kitchen. they basically run it (b/c nobody is gonna fight them for it). and the sad part is, they make more than anybody else down there.

Micah something to also remember is that to be a CIT at some camps the req. are " to be at least 15 years old, a Star scout, and have a signed statement saying you can be a CIT from your unit leader AND your parents or legal guardian. " Now if you qualify you would not have to be a CIT but go directly to be a counsler. but then every camp has different rules as to what and how their program works.

ill be 17 by then. i should also have my eagle before i turn 16.

i have been thinking as of late about how much longer i want to stay in the program. i recently learned that our current SM (who basically holds everyhting together adult wise) is leaving in January, and so is his son 9one of my best friends). in the same month, another one of my friends (also an older scout) will turn 18. a couple monthes later in may or june the only other kid my age will 18 and be gone. so, basically i will be the only older boy left, and that isnt how i want it. i figure ill probably be done with the program on a full time basis as of next spring. i may be around for campouts and stuff, but not like i am now. the program just doesnt have what it used to for me. it just seems more boring now.

[ASM-142]

A little off topic - but part of being an Eagle is giving back to the program. That is hard to do if you will not be there.

[Lynda J]

One of the questions I always ask when I sit on an Eagle BOR is now that you are trying for Eagle what do you plan on giving back to your troop.

I agree with ASM. To truly become an Eagle you have to give back to YOUR TROOP. At 16 you can become a JASM. Help with the younger boys as a mentor. Set an examply for what they can become.
But earning Eagle isn't as simply as getting the patch and leaving the Troop. That simply isn't an Eagle Scout to me.

[scoutaholic]

...i have been thinking as of late about how much longer i want to stay in the program. ... i figure ill probably be done with the program on a full time basis as of next spring. i may be around for campouts and stuff, but not like i am now. the program just doesnt have what it used to for me. it just seems more boring now.

...part of being an Eagle is giving back to the program. That is hard to do if you will not be there.

...To truly become an Eagle you have to give back to YOUR TROOP. At 16 you can become a JASM. Help with the younger boys as a mentor. Set an examply for what they can become.
But earning Eagle isn't as simply as getting the patch and leaving the Troop. That simply isn't an Eagle Scout to me...

Hacimsaalk didn't say he was planning to get his Eagle and then fall off the edge of the world. He has noted that things are changing in the troop, and may not be the same for him in the future. I think it commendable to be thinking several months ahead to forsee that. He is already looking into other ways of giving back to scouting. Summer camp staff would be one great way of giving back. There may be many other ways, even if they are not directly for his troop. There may be some great leadership opportunies coming up in the troop with changes in adult leadership, but there is no reason he should feel obligated to stay in the troop when other opportunities are also available.

[hacimsaalk]

I understand what you all are saying. I am not saying that i will drop out immediately, just that I am not going to be in to it as most, once leadership changes. i was planning on becoming a JASM, b/c i am DEFINITELY not being the SPL again, just too much in our troop. i feel that i will be giving back, whether it be to scouts, or to the community (as an EMT, firefighter, etc).