Improper Equipment - Again

[fritz1255]

We have one Scout in our Troop who seems to always show up with "less than optimum" equipment at Troop events. Not sure where I posted this before, but he was the one who showed up with a day pack and borrowed boots with no socks at a backpacking trip. I tried to remedy this by having my son (Troop Webmaster) post a suggested equipment list on the Troop website, but no improvement. At the last Troop outing (Ski Trip) , he showed up with no winter jacket, just a hooded sweatshirt. Windchill was below zero. Totally unacceptable, but not his fault - hs parents sent him that way. He is a good kid, and we don't want to lose him, but we need to do something.

How do we get his parents to see the light without criticizing their parenting skills? (although there are some issues there, in my opinion). I don't think that money figures in, since they live in a $500,000 house and drop him off in a Mercedes. Buy him the equipment, and embarrass them? It would be almost worth it to me!

[mom2twoscouts]

Isn't one of the most basic rank requirements to come prepared for a trip and show your scoutmaster? (I'm paraphrasing since the scout books are in the car and wind chill is brrrrrr.)

Sounds like he needs to take responsibility. How about one of the older boys going over the list with the younger boys? Perhaps laminating a list inside his scout book for HIM? I have had issues with my sons on the internet and they are not allowed on it at home without me. That works for me because I'm organized and my kids are my priority. Sounds like mom and dad have other "priorities" and this kid needs some help getting his scouting legs under him.

You're not going to change the parents, you can only give the kids compensatory skills. (Can you tell I'm a sped teacher?) After interventions, if it doesn't help, THEN HE CAN'T GO. It would take one ONE missed fun trip, and I bet he does better next time.

[wagionvigil]

Any SCout that comes unprepared especially in winter should be sent home. When we went to Philmont several years ago my son spent the week at Rocky Mountain SCout Camp. They went through all their personal gear and anyone tha was lacking the parents had a choice
1. Go to the trading post and get what he needed or 2.
not attend the campout

This is a safety and liability issue and the parents and the scout need to take responsibility. I realize we are here for the boys but we can only do so much. Send the parents a leter stating come prepared or be sent home. It might be a good idea to have everyone unpack at the meeting point before you leave and the paents take off

[fin24000]

as PL (one patrol so I lead like an SPL would) before any backpacking trip we have a shake down and everyone (even leaders) brings there full pack and shows it to the troop and if they need to lose some gear or get more they are told and then they always take care of it...... I mean we are in Texas so you can do withount alot of the cloths most of the time but you should still "Be Prepared".

Aaron.

[ASM-142]

A scout that is not prepared should not be allowed to go on the trip. This is not the parents fault for for "sending" him that way since it is the scouts responsibility to pack and be prepared.

[Mrw]

We have sent an unprepared boy home for safety reasons.

The parents certainly need to be told the boy will be sent home if he is not properly dressesd and out-fitted for the activity. The boy needs to be told this also.

When you ask him, what does he say about his lack of preparation?

I will say that my son and I have had the conversation about snow-boarding in a hoodie instead of a winter jacket and he showed me all the appropriate underlayers to stay warm and dry. The hoodie is just for show.

[evmori]

I agree 100% with the posters on sending him home. If something would happen to this Scout, you can bet the parents would hold the unit liable.

[Mad Dog]

I would recommend putting something about dress on the permission slip. On our permission slip for Klondike for example we expressly indicate boots are a must anyone not properly dressed will not be allowed to participate and be sent home. In this way neither the scout nor his parents can say that they did not know what was required if we have to send someone home.

[jr56]

Good idea to hand out a list of required equipment. If the scout still shows up unprepared, you are right to deny him participation for his own safety.

[FrankJ]

If a scout shows up unprepared to a point of unsafe, and the situation cannot be corrected, leave him home regardless of the reason.

Putting the information on permission slips & program sheets are good ideas, and shows that the leadership is prepared (or at least thought about what it takes to be prepared).

[vpalango]

Just adding my $.02... I agree with the majority of posters here, if a scout shows up unprepared, you send him home. Simple. Now... That doesn't mean you can't offer some remediations depending on the case.

I have had situations where I sent a scout home, but they caught up with us at the campsite with the parents delivering them individually, after they had re-packed the correct gear.

The other issue is communications. We have a parents guide which talks about scouts being prepared, and that they will be sent home. We also reinforce this with (especially) new scouts. It only takes 1-2 times where a scout is sent home for not packing correctly and everyone starts to remember.

If you have a repeat offender even after this, it certainly calls for a SM Conference first with the scout, and then with the scout and his parents to find out what's going on.

YIS,

[coneyraven]

I agree with the last poster....if it's a money issue, we can work around that...perhaps they're too proud to bring it up......if it's a lazy issue..then send him home...if we start giving him gear as spares, it defeats the purpose in trying to teach him to be prepared for the outing....

[Quailman]

I could see where money could become an issue. If you're going on a major outing like summer camp or a high adventure campout with substantial fees, then it makes sense to do a shakedown and make sure everyone has what they need - not just the slackers. For a weekend overnighter at the local state park, send him home.

I know of a troop that loads the personal gear trailer the evening prior to departure for summer camp. That would give everyone a chance to show up the next day with what was missing, and they meet and go on departure day.

[mhjacobson]

I have discovered that simply posting a list of proper equipment does not make the grade. We have check lists of equipment by activity and they are passed out to the scouts as "reminders" two weeks prior to any event so that the scouts could check off the items as they are packed. The problem almost never arises.

[SM-890]

I am with everyone on sending them home, especially if it is safety related. We have a permission slip that is signed by the parents for each trip, generally turned in one to two weeks prior to the trip for planning and a trip list that details what each scout needs to bring based on the trip and his personal/patrol needs. Each scout is responsible for packing and initialing the list. This list is turned in and checked at assembly for the trip. It also has an area where the parents can list any temporary or last minute info such as temp meds or other contact names & number. (We had some parents taking a small trip one weekend while the troop was gone and they wouldn't be at home. I happened to catch this in conversation and had them give me teh info where they would be and one of the scout's aunt's information for that weekend.)

[pipestone1991]

I'm sorry, but even if the kid didn't manage to get at least a winter coat and gloves on then he himself must need to see a mental-health professional......to be blunt wearing nothing but a hoodie on a below-freezing campout is just plain stupid...aren't scouts supposed to look after themselves?

[cballman]

ah the age old question. what do we as parents expect from our kids? what do we expect from other parents? who do we get our kids to listen to? If the weather is not as bad as it seems then maybe we need to let a kid get a little cold to help them understand what we are trying to teach them. there are some parents that think that a little bad weather should stop a campout. we also need to hold parents accountable for the child in question. I would like to think that maybe over the years I have helped get a child prepared for the weather or just plain coldness.

[ronin718]

Another thing to consider these days is what happens if we let Johnny go on an outing improperly clothed/equipped and he gets sick/injured. It doesn't take much to precipitate litigation for the slightest perceived injustice. The last thing I want is to have some hair-trigger parent taking me to court because I "let" their boy get sick on an outing. Nevermind the parent should've recognized the problem themselves.

[maricopasem]

How do we get his parents to see the light without criticizing their parenting skills? (although there are some issues there, in my opinion).

I couldn't tell from the post if someone has talked to his parents or not, but that seems to the first place to go.

In my years as an educator I have talked to the parents of countless kids with varying problems. What has worked well for me in dealing with them is to make myself an ally instead of an adversary. Telling (or even the mere suggestion) a parent how to parent generally goes badly.

Perhaps a course of action like this might help: Talk to the parents and share in very objective terms your concerns. Tell them nonjudgmentally that you've visited with "Johnnie" about coming to campouts prepared, for example, but you're concerned he still isn't. Then say, and here is the key, "What suggestions or counsel do you have for me so that I can help Johnnie in this regard." Most parents respond really well to this type of communication because you are addressing the issue while deferring to them as the parent.

[Silver Fox]

We do have a recommended gear list and hold refresher training in special circumstances like cold weather camping for the scouts.

We have had this happen a few times and have always been able to scrounge up some extra equipment from the SM's stash. We make sure that the scout understands the importance of showing up properly prepared. After the event we have a discussion with the parents.