Discipline Issues

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Godwyn IV
Second Class

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Greater Western Reserve Council
Posted: 30 Jul 2004 10:48 am Post subject: Discipline
Issues

Some of the newer scouts in our troop have some issues where
they dont listen . How do you discipline the scouts in your
troop (hold scout sign up for a stupid amount of time?)

P.S. I wouldn't do what i mentioned above
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wagionvigil
Counselor

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 192
Location: PA
Posted: 30 Jul 2004 10:51 am Post subject:

I am not going to touch this one except to say I have Been
teaching 33 years and I do not tolerate it. Meeting Over!
Parents get the hint after once or twice when they get a call
to pick up Johnny Early
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Godwyn IV
Second Class

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Greater Western Reserve Council
Posted: 30 Jul 2004 11:02 am Post subject:

Thank you. I have been contemplating this question for a
while.
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dog, it's too dark to read."
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ScoutmasterBob
Counselor

Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Posted: 30 Jul 2004 11:50 am Post subject:

This is a tough one, mostly beacouse you have to be careful
and make sure you obey the youth protection guidelines, about
all you can do is hold up the scout sign and if that does not
work ask the offending person to leave.

Another thing is to get the scouts to "police within". If you
use the patrol method the SPL or PL might be able to have
better luck in keeping order in troop meetings.

One thing we tried was to make the entire troop or patrol
responsible for the actions of its members, instead of sending
the boy who is causing the problem home, we tried sending the
troop or patrol home. It worked pretty good. The boys who
wanted to be there, would take a little more interest in
someone who was goofing off, because they did want to miss out
on an activity because of one loudmouth.
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Scoutmaster Troop 538
www.wx5troop538.homestead.com
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wagionvigil
Counselor

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 192
Location: PA
Posted: 30 Jul 2004 12:03 pm Post subject:

Thats what I said.
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Action Center D Rappel Tower Director 2001 and 2005 National
Jamborees
Northeast REgion Area 4 Venturing Chairman
Wagion 6 Lodge Advisor 96-99
"If you ain't A bear you're a Meal"

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BM_Crawford
Life

Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 131
Location: PA W/F Council
Posted: 30 Jul 2004 12:44 pm Post subject:

One idea is to make a meeting of total silence. If they want
one extreme of total anarchy than just turn it around and make
the activity for the meeting sitting there in a hot room with
no talking. An hour and a half of doing nothing is pretty
boring.
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Brian Crawford
Troop 251

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Godwyn IV
Second Class

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Greater Western Reserve Council
Posted: 30 Jul 2004 12:46 pm Post subject:

I like that idea.
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"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a
dog, it's too dark to read."
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BM_Crawford
Life

Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 131
Location: PA W/F Council
Posted: 30 Jul 2004 02:40 pm Post subject:

Thank you
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Brian Crawford
Troop 251

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steelgirl
Tenderfoot

Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 10
Location: North Carolina
Posted: 31 Jul 2004 09:32 am Post subject: Scout Discipline

We have been fairly lucky as our current scoutmaster is a
Middle School Principal. That said, why punish the whole troop
with a meeting of silence because a couple scouts are acting
up? Scouting should be FUN!!!!

Our scoutmaster and or committee chair meet with the parents
of problem scouts and try to iron out the problems. Sometimes
we have asked that a parent of a problem scout spend the
entire meeting with the scout (for a couple of weeks) so they
can see the problem and try to work to deal with it.

Many (but not all) of our scouts that are too noisy, too
crazy, come from single parent homes and are acting out to get
attention. Being in boy scouts is important to them, but they
don't know the right rules to follow. Yes, this is a lot of
work to deal with them, but we have seen them turn around.

Again I ask... please don't punish an entire troop because you
have 1 or 2 causing problems. Thanks !!

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BM_Crawford
Life

Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 131
Location: PA W/F Council
Posted: 31 Jul 2004 10:47 am Post subject:

Usually roudiness spreads. The silent meeting is usually if
the whole troop is acting up and talking with the parents
doesnt always work.
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Brian Crawford
Troop 251

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Kobalt
Star

Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 98
Location: Louisville, KY
Posted: 31 Jul 2004 01:49 pm Post subject:

Scouts are usually the most immature around 12 or 13, when
they've been in scouts for, what seems to them, a long time,
but in reality are still green to how the troop functions. Our
scoutmaster doesn't use the
"entire-troop-silent-for-a-meeting" approach. Instead, he
tries to use the Scout Sign to calm people down. That works
most of the time, as the older scouts take charge and tell the
younger scouts to be quiet (hence, going with my SM's "boy-run
troop" plan). However, we still have a few rambunctious young
ones. Basically, our SM will call them out on the spot, hence
focusing everyone's attention on them. If that does not work,
he will speak to them (privately) about their attitude.

That works for us. I admit that I was a like this in my youth
(who isn't?), but I'm pretty sure I'm okay now. I hope you
get this issue straightened out. Later!
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John Baunach
Troop 42
"If it were easy, it would have been done before." -Jeana
Yeager, co-pilot of Voyager

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Guneukitschik
Life

Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Waynesboro, PA
Posted: 06 Aug 2004 10:14 am Post subject:

Several years ago our Troop was made up of all young
scouts...all of the older scouts had moved on. When it came
time for the new webelos to join the troop. The young scouts
were disrespectful and loud, etc. This came back to haunt them
when they were suddenly in charge of a bigger group of loud,
disrespecful scouts. The leaders jumped in before the problem
snowballed. The scouts were trained and put what they learned
into action. The Troop now runs fairly smoothly. Remember that
Scouts should set the example. The scout meeting still needs
to be fun...if it isn't fun at least some of the time the
scouts will loose interest.
There will always be a few clowns in every bunch... you will
have to find out what works best... but I like the idea of
sending them home early or make them miss out on the next fun
activity due to their behavior.
I especially like to take the one that misbehaves and put them
in charge of a group of scouts and give them a task to
accomplish. This may change their attitude.
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RWSmith
Counselor

Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 55
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: 06 Aug 2004 10:34 am Post subject:

Got a discipline issue? Ever had one? Take a look at this
link. It's worth reading. Really. I can't promise you a
miracle; but, I can tell you I witnessed one following the
application of [b]"Abuse it -- Lose it" Logical Consequences
for Teaching Self-Control to Mischievous Children

Go to: http://keirsey.com/abuselose.html

If you do read it, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
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Bob Smith, OA, NESA, DAV
ADC, Apache District

If you can read this, thank a teacher... If you can read it in
English, thank a Veteran.

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Guneukitschik
Life

Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Waynesboro, PA
Posted: 06 Aug 2004 10:37 am Post subject:

Thanks for the link. it looks like a useful resource..I'll
check it out more when I have some time.
Thanks.
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[hungryman287]

I know I'm new here and disipline is an issue in my troop. Because the older scouts arent there much and if they are they dont care what is happening since they are goofing off themselvs. I am not currently SPL but I will be running for it next time elections come arround. To top it all off most of the boys don't seem like they want to be in scouts to begin with.
My real question is. What would be a good way to deal with that?

[Rick Tyler]

:oops: I know I'm new here and disipline is an issue in my troop. Because the older scouts arent there much and if they are they dont care what is happening since they are goofing off themselvs. I am not currently SPL but I will be running for it next time elections come arround. To top it all off most of the boys don't seem like they want to be in scouts to begin with.
My real question is. What would be a good way to deal with that?

That is a difficult problem. Has your Scoutmaster ever shown you a loose-leaf reference called "Boy Scout Troop Program Features"? There are three of them, cleverly called Vol. 1, Vol. 2, and Vol. 3. They have pre-packaged meeting plans organized around monthly themes. They are a good place to start interesting meetings.

Does your troop camp often? You can't really do scouting indoors. Unless the weather is too foul you should be doing meetings outdoors, too. No one ever said troop meetings have to be in a church basement or school gym.

Your Scoutmaster's #1 job should be to act as a coach for the SPL. As long as your SM and SPL are working together, good things should be happening. Without knowing a lot more details, it's hard to give much concrete suggestions.

Some of the best advice I've heard about running a Scout Troop is to have an active outdoor program for guys that like camping. Boys that don't like the outdoors might consider whether some other activity might be better for them than Scouts. Let them leave, and then start recruiting guys that want to camp. There are some great recruiting ideas at http://www.inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm. This same Website also has good ideas for activities and games, as does http://www.usscouts.org.

Good luck and let us know how things go.

[Lynda J]

We just got back from Camporee. Had loads of fun, brought back ribbons in the cooking, uniform, campsite, and overall. It was a wonderful weekend, except for problems with one Scout.
I got this boy as a Bear. He has always been a hand full, and has lots of issures, but I have always been able to handle him. But it ihas gotten out of control. After this trip none of the other boys will tent with him or even buddy with him. Of course he always says it's someone elses fault.
It has gotten to the point that it is exhausting. He cussed the other leader, cussed the boys. To the point that the SPL was ready to smack him. The SPL and I talked to him and he promised not to use the language again. It wasn't 15 minutes until two other boys had gone to the SPL. He came to me. The two boys involved in the second time were my kido and another boy that is great. So I know they were telling the truth.
I have worked with kids my entire adult life as a teacher and through scouts and this boy scares me. He has more anger than any child I have ever worked with. His mother doesn't see it. I ask her a couple of years ago if he had ever been in anger management counseling. She said she had put him in it for about a month but it didn't seem to do any good so she stopped taking him. He is one of those kids you know that at some point you may open the newspaper and see his face on the front page. I worry about him.
The SM has talked to him twice about attitude so far this year. This time he may be ask to leave.
And it makes me feel like such a failure. Of all the boys in the Troop this child needed this more than anyone. But, we can't allow him to force other boys out. And we are at that point.
It just breaks my heart. THe mother hen complex in me.

[OldGreyBear]

Ah, the conundrum, wrapped in a quandry topped off by an enigma, how do we keep a boy who needs scouts in scouts when his behavior clearly doesnt appear he wants any part of scouts

Has the scout ever been asked why he is in scouts and what HE wants to do? I know he has been talked to about his behavior, but has anyone asked the scout what he would like to do? I have found some of the most seemingly incorrigible types blossom when given responsibility in an area that they like.

[wagionvigil]

When a scout becomes a safety issue it is time to cut any ties with him regardless how much he needs scouting.

[Rick Tyler]

When a scout becomes a safety issue it is time to cut any ties with him regardless how much he needs scouting.

I share the pain others have related in dealing with a boy who could really benefit from the program, but who won't try to fit in. On the other hand, we had a similar boy in our troop who lost his temper and beat my son on the head, arm, and shoulder with a canoe paddle. I, for one, will never again hesitate to "counsel out" any boy who demonstrates that he has "anger management problems." Fortunately, my son's injuries were a series of lumps and bruises, and I'm not the kind of person who sues. It really could have been a lot worse. (He left Scouts on his own a couple of months later and I can't say any tears were shed.)

[Lynda J]

Yes Gray we have ask him. He wants to stay in. In fact that was something he and I talked about after the first cussing problem this weekend. I ask him if he wanted to stay at camp or go home. He wanted to stay. So I made it very clear that if there was another problem with language I would call his mother and he woud go home. It wasn't 15 minutes. I tried to call. But could never get anyone to answer any of the three numbers I had on the permission slip with me. So I had no option but to keep him.

Yes Wagion. It is a safety issue. This kid scares me. And believe me I have never been scared of a kid in my life. I know that given the right conditions that something like what happen to Rick's son will happen.

I talked to the leader that went with us last night later. She won't deal with him any more. And as much as I hate to say it. I don't have the energy either. I spend more time trying to referee problems he causes than I spend on any other part of working with the boys.
Another other called me last night that he had told her son that this boy's mother was a "street whore" and that if we couldn't get it straightened out she was taking her son out. That she had no intention of having him talked to in that manner. I can't blame her.
So I honestly think that for the best of the troop that we simply can't afford to keep him. And that breaks my heart.

[wagionvigil]

I think I need to explain where I come from on this. I have been an educator for 33 years. I have seen it all. What I see now really scares me.
Please do not take offence to this BUT I do not believe in ADD and ADHD I believe that this gives a child "cart blanche" for bad Behavior. When I am doing a Climbing Merit Badge Program and a scout tells me I have ? or a leader says that this scout has ? I say" I am supposed to be impressed with That? Everyone gets the same treatment and the same chance. I do not Care. Do I sound Callus? Yes I am. " We can not make exceptions for anyone that 1. Causes a disturbance and 2. Causes a safety issue and this scout has fallen into both of those.
Again do not take offense but if you have not seen these things take place on a dailey basis you do not understand.

[Guneukitschik]

I think you should implement some type of punishment for the kid. If he swears at a scout, etc. the next outing he doesn't get to go...it's that simple. Sure you could kick him out...but if he wants to be there then maybe he'll straighten up.

[Lynda J]

I agree about ADD and ADHD. It is an easy way to get out of the fact that about 80% of these kids simply need strict dicipline and lots of love. Some educators and parents find it easier to "give them a pill". Simple as that. I taught years ago. THere isn't enough money to make me be a teacher now. They would have my rear in jail. I have a friend that a kid bit her in class. She couldn't do anything about it and couldn't ever kick him out of her class. My dad always said unless you can dicipline you can't teach. You have to have a way of being the authroity. He was right. When my dad died in 84, a young man came up to me and ask if he could speak at the funeral. He stood up and said that he was where he was at that time
because my dad was the only adult that was willing to take a belt and bust his rear and line him back out. This man is now the DA in my home town.


This boy has been given many chances. He has actually not been allowed to go on two events because of attitude and actions. So that hasn't worked. At this point, as much as I hate it, the only option may be to put him out. He needs major help and he isn't getting it. And I don't think I can put the other boys at risk just for this kid.

[wagionvigil]

As they say" Don't let the door hit you in the Behind"

[Lynda J]

The SM, the other leader and I are going to meet tonight after our troop meeting and discuss our next step. This has been one of the hardest decissions I have had to make since being in scouting and I hate it.
Thanks everyone for the comments, suggestions and support.

[cballman]

Lynda

as a parent of a child with ADHD and a few in our troop. My word is that you have given that child a chance and then some. so in the best interest of the other kids in your troop I see the only problem is how to tell the child that he cannot come back. Yes it is the hardest choice to make but to quote a star from the movies "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the the one" and since you have more boys in the troop than this one you have a choice to make. either help out the one and loose a bunch of kids or help out the bunch and loose only one.. yes it the hardest decisions to make as an adult leader but sometiimes you have to do it. I am sorry for the problem but i have one small question where is this childs parents and why arent they made to go on outings.

sorry so long
if you need any encouragement let me know and I will help you.

Charlie

[Lynda J]

We had our troop meeting tonight. He didn't come. THe SM, another ASM and I met and discussed what happen. The decission is that it is best that we give him a time out for a while. We will meet with his mother in two weeks. We have something going on next week and simply can't do it sooner. I know in my head that I have done everything I can possible do to try and work with this boy. But my heart still hurts for him.
Thanks everyone.

[wagionvigil]

I really do not think a time out will help but it's your troop.

[Lynda J]

Neither do I. But this was the decission between two other ASM, the SM and myself.
Basically he will be told that until he decides that he will abide by the Scout Laws he can not come to scouts. That at the time he decides he will he is welcome to come back on a probational condition. Personally my thought is that until he gets some major counseling he can not cope in a way that he can act as a scout. THat is the saddest part. This kid is a stick of TNT waiting to explode.
I love this kid and wish there was more I could do for him. But also accept the fact that I have done all I can. It is up to his parents to get him the counseling that he needs.

[t305spl]

What do you think of the idea of referral slips? Give them to the Youth Leaders and if they see any problem or disrespect or just a weird situation where the other youth leaders don't know what to do. Have them fill ou the slips and give them to their SPL after he speaks to them have the SPL write up a report to the SM and Committee at the end of the month Have them monitor the situations so if it happens more than once they cantake appropriate action.

[dad69]

If the boy is a safety issue, I agree. You have tell him to leave. You can not risk another scout getting hurt. Another thing that would concern me would be the boys taking matter into their own hands to try and straighten him out... that could get real ugly.

I can only guess that the boys don't want him around either. It detracts from their scouting experience and puts a terrible strain on the leaders
trying to deal with a boy that obviously has problems that need professional help.

Have you talked to your district or council? Maybe they can help.

[Lynda J]

Our options changed drastically yesterday. The police were called to the school regarding this boy. He has been suspended and is being placed in an alternative school. He struck a teacher yesterday. This is the one thing that I feared. To my knowledge this is the first time he has been violent. I have a call into the SM. But at this point I do not feel that we can simply give him some time off. For the safety of the other boys and the adults. We can not have him at any function.