A not so worthy Eagle....

[Hubert]

I am working on my Eagle scout project, along with another boy in my troop. I am older, and have been in scouting one more year than he. The problem is, he is ahead of me (not like its a race) but his writings for Eagle, were in his parents handwriting. His parents went and picked up the materials. I understand he cant drive, but he stayed home.

Now, his project, I pulled our van up to by where we were painting, and opened all the doors and turned up the radio. He, sat on the side, and listened to the radio. He never once came to where we were working, he never once asked us how we were doing. Well wait, I lied, Im sorry. He came over to talk to me because he was bored. All he said was about his weekend and all that blah blah.

Now, how is this going to make out troop look? Also, what can I do, I know I cant prevent him, but what can I do or any advice on this at all? Thanks all.

[Hubert]

My issue on this is that a boy is making the highest honor in scouting, something I have worked for for eleven years. (from 1st grade I have dreamed of being Eagle) He is working on this award and in my eyes, not deserving of such.

I was unsure if I came off a little mean or spiteful on my first thread so I wanted to make that clear...lol.

[wagionvigil]

In your Eagle Packet does it say anything about the candidate actually working on a project or does it say give leadership to a worthy project?

[Lynda J]

An Eagle Project should be planned so that if the Eagle Canidate were not there the project would go forward.

Like Wagion said. It is the planning and leadership of the project. Not doing the work.

We had one project turned down because in the write up the Scout had made no plan for anyone else other then himself to do any of the work.

[smtroop168]

This should get a lot of posts.

Should this be moved to the new Eagle Scout Forum?

[FrankJ]

So is this a scout working on your eagle project or are you working on his eagle project? The two issues are very different.

If it is your project, provide him with leadership (assign him a task). Part of leadership is motivating your troops. (And realizing not all volunteers are going to work very hard.) The work he does on your project has nothing to do with his project.

If it is his project he should be leading it. If he his not, discuss your concerns with your scout master in private. If you have friendly relations with the scout you might try discussing what it takes to lead a project with him, but understand you have to talk as a peer to peer, and not as a person in authority.

[Hubert]

Its his project, and he is not showing leadership at all. In my eyes, his parents did it all. In order to show leadership, he has to at least do something, not just tell everyone where to go, as in, "Paint those posts, and those goals." I think in order o show leadership, you must do more than that.

[Hubert]

Along with the troop posisition, he has bounced all over, holding many different posisitions, never ONCE doing the job. He holds the title, but does not activly serve.

Thank you FrankJ, I will try to talk to my scoutmaster, I have a couple of times though, but I can give it another try. As for him, Id be wasting my breath. He sees this as a race, to beat me to Eagle. His parents have criticized me because its taking me longer than him, but Im not bothered. My project is a little more in depth than his. It hits a little closer to home too.

[wagionvigil]

FYI If he sets everything and has helpers in place he does not even have to be there. Not saying this is the right way to do it but the planning and organization of the workforce is what is important

[Hubert]

INdeed, but his scout attitude lacks as well. I am not trying to slam him, but when you come into a meeting, as an older scout, without your uniform, and have jeans with holes everywhere, and then a scout hat turned to the side, I do not see that as Eagle material. He wears a hat we recieved at summer camp to the maating, maybe thinking that will work for his uniform, but he has it tilted to the side, gangster like. His pants, are half off his butt, everyone there has to put up with seeing his underwear.

Along with that, the boy "touches himself" all the time. He did such in Flag Retirement Cermony we do, he has to "scratch a place". No matter when you look at him his hand is on his private area. I find that, 1. Disgusting, 2. Non-scout like, and 3. Not Eagle Worthy.

[scoutaholic]

Fortunately (from the perspective or this Eagle candidate), and unfortunately (from the perspective of Hubert), Qualification for Eagle is not up to a democratic vote.

The project paperwork has to be pre-approved with 4 signatures, and the completed project with 2 of them. If the Unit Leader and the Representative from the benefitting organization both sign off on the project, then it is done. There is still the possibility that the boy will realize on his own that he could do better, or during an SM Conference he could be guided to that realization. In both those cases there is nothing that could force him to do another project, or to improve on what he has done. If the Board of Review (who has not had a chance to approve the project completion until then) determines that the boy should have done differently/better, they can require him to go back and do another or more. This instance is rare, and would have to be well documented by the board, but it can happen.

As far as his other behavior 'not befitting of an Eagle scout', there is little that you can personally do. His unit leader will have to sign the paperwork, and pass-off that he shows 'scout spirit'. If the boy feels that he shows scout spirit, and he can justify that to the unit leader and the board of review, then he will be an Eagle scout.

[Hubert]

Ok, thanks everyone. This is helping me out a lot. I dont want to be mean to the kid, but he is an older boy, and should show an example.

Thanks again!

[FrankJ]

Another possibility is to write a letter to the district advancement chair explaining why you do not think the scout showed leadership in his eagle project. This letter should be forwarded to the BOR chair. Think hard before doing this. Although the letter should be confidential don't count on it. Be absolutely sure of your facts and stick them. Have some one you trust and respect read the letter and listen to their advice, even if it is 'don't send it"

As for a race to eagle, don't worry about it. It is not a race. It is a journey. Those who really get it realize that it does not stop when you get a patch to put on your uniform. (Are even when you take the uniform off for the last time.)

[Hubert]

OK, Thanks. yes, I am not worried about a race. I am proud to be where I am. I am proud of what I have done. My parents are not pushing me as his has. I have done everything. Even figuring out how to get myself to and from meetings, if they are unable to drive me. So I am proud to be where I am, and if he does "win" then good for him. I know deep inside that I deserve it and earned it.

[jhawk]

Has it occurred to you that this boy may have special needs? He may very well have a disability (or several) that could explain why his parents picked up his materials, why he stayed home while they did that, why his paperwork was in his parent's writing, why he has limited contact with others, why he behaves in ways you don't think appropriate, why you think he isn't looking like a leader.
Do you think it is possible that this boy is doing the best he can? If you knew more about what he may be dealing with--academically, emotionally, socially--you might be less quick to judge him unworthy.
Has it crossed your mind that he may actually be functioning at a level far beyond what anyone ever predicted he might? Even if you have known him for years or even go to school with him, you may not have an understanding of what he copes with on a daily basis. Not every boy in every troop comes complete with an average or above IQ, social skill functioning, the same reaction to sensory input, and the ability to read and write well. There should be a place for every boy in a every troop and every one of them has a right to earn their Eagle. Might some need more help with some parts of it than others? Yes. Does it make them less worthy as Eagles? No.
If this boy needs someone to write his words on paper for him, how does that take away from you? Maybe he has had to work 4 times as hard as you to get where he is. You really can't be the judge of that.
I don't think you have any right to put your opinions of him in a letter to anyone to try to prevent his Eagle rank. If adult leaders have approved him up to this point, maybe it is because they understand more about him than you do. As a fellow scout, any disabilities he may have wouldn't be any of your business and you should have limited knowledge of them.
You would be better off, in my opinion, just concerning yourself with wearing your uniform proudly and serving in your offices to the best of your ability, and completing your project in the best way you can. Let him do what he needs to do and leave the determination of whether or not he is deserving of the rank of Eagle up to the BOR.

[ASM-142]

Has it occurred to you that this boy may have special needs? He may very well have a disability (or several) that could explain why his parents picked up his materials, why he stayed home while they did that, why his paperwork was in his parent's writing, why he has limited contact with others, why he behaves in ways you don't think appropriate, why you think he isn't looking like a leader.
Do you think it is possible that this boy is doing the best he can? If you knew more about what he may be dealing with--academically, emotionally, socially--you might be less quick to judge him unworthy.
Has it crossed your mind that he may actually be functioning at a level far beyond what anyone ever predicted he might? Even if you have known him for years or even go to school with him, you may not have an understanding of what he copes with on a daily basis. Not every boy in every troop comes complete with an average or above IQ, social skill functioning, the same reaction to sensory input, and the ability to read and write well. There should be a place for every boy in a every troop and every one of them has a right to earn their Eagle. Might some need more help with some parts of it than others? Yes. Does it make them less worthy as Eagles? No.
If this boy needs someone to write his words on paper for him, how does that take away from you? Maybe he has had to work 4 times as hard as you to get where he is. You really can't be the judge of that.
I don't think you have any right to put your opinions of him in a letter to anyone to try to prevent his Eagle rank. If adult leaders have approved him up to this point, maybe it is because they understand more about him than you do. As a fellow scout, any disabilities he may have wouldn't be any of your business and you should have limited knowledge of them.
You would be better off, in my opinion, just concerning yourself with wearing your uniform proudly and serving in your offices to the best of your ability, and completing your project in the best way you can. Let him do what he needs to do and leave the determination of whether or not he is deserving of the rank of Eagle up to the BOR.

I agree 100% with this.

[lifescoutforlife]

I agree 100% also. I have been in our troop almost a year now and with over 25 kids in it I'm just starting to get to know a little more about them every day and will never totaly know everything about any of them.

[MDEagle]

Hubert, I've run into you on a few threads. You're a nice young man.

Nothing that anyone else does or says can take away from your achievement in earning Eagle. Not another Scout, not an adult, no one.

The things you've done and learned are etched in your heart and soul and memory. You'll benefit from your work for years to come... the rest of your life. You will probably never know all the people you've touched and inspired in your path to Eagle.

That said, you're traveling on your path, not anyone else's. Focus on your goals and dreams, and let others take care of theirs.

I wish you every success as you wrap up your project and begin your life as an Eagle Scout.

[Hubert]

He has no special needs. He is a smart kid, trust me.

Ok, I can see that this was taken the wrong way, and I am going to resign from this topic. Thank you to those who gave advice.

[Hubert]

And I am sorry for this. I just do not like the fact that I am working my butt off and his parents do his for him. Its like he is getting a free ride. Thats all.....Im not trying to be un scout like or to judge him, I just feel that he is not working for this rank. Thats my view, and your right, its not up to me, I just was wondering if this is occuring elsewhere or anything like that.