Adult taking over too much

[scubascout]

fibonacci that is what we do too, and the scoutmasters come to the committee meetings as a sm, not the person in charge

[jhawk]

In our small troop, all parents are part of the committee.
We wouldn't have enough adults if there wasn't some cross-over. No matter what title you want to give him, though, he is a problem. I don't even really know if he is calling himself an ASM currently, really, and he is never in uniform so I don't know what he presents himself as. I probably should have just called him an adult leader in the first post rather than CC. He has been CC about a year. He has been like this for the 4 years he has been in the troop in every capacity. Most others just roll their eyes at him and let him go on being controlling. The boys resent him. They don't want to say too much either, though.... I am not very tactful and want some ideas for approaching him, but maybe tact isn't the way to go with him anyway. He is pretty adamant that he is going to do what he wants to do...

[Mrw]

I live with a control freak and tact and subtlety are completely pointless.

You need to be very blunt with this guy and tell him specifically where his boundaries are and what he may do. Find him a specific job where he can be as nit-picky as he wants, but make it very clear that the calendar and scheduling of events are things he may not do.

It might really tick him off, but it is the only way. Asking and suggesting don't go very far with a controlling person because they always firmly believe they know best. Remind him that the boys need to fail sometimes to learn how to do it better the next time.

[lifescoutforlife]

Very well said Mrw, sometimes learning comes from failing. As far as this guy you are all talking about, I hope it all works out for the best. Maybe a idea is tell him about this site and he can get on here and read this thread and maybe he will see what he is doing.

[Lynda J]

Time for a talk with the Charter Org. Rep. Also contact your Unit Commisioner and the DE. Have a meeting with this guy and let him know that his control isn't needed or wanted.

[WVBeaver05]

While I am a proponent of allowing/encouraging Scouts to "work" with adults, I also want to make sure that we don't set them up for failure.

I would suggest that the SPL attempt to handle the situation, but as mentioned before, that might not work and it may be beyond the skills of a Youth to deal with it. If there was no progress (or a backlash) I think it is time for another adult to step in. As has been pointed out, this will likely be a hard behaviour to correct. So, even a unit adult may not be able to succeed. And then you are on to COR or UC.

Good luck with it.

YiS

[Nuts4Scouts]

I don't even really know if he is calling himself an ASM currently, really, and he is never in uniform so I don't know what he presents himself as. I probably should have just called him an adult leader in the first post rather than CC. He has been CC about a year. He has been like this for the 4 years he has been in the troop in every capacity.

The fact that he is the CC makes a big difference. While he might have been like this all along, he now has, what he perceives as, the real authority to do what ever he wants. Unfortunately, in some cases he is right, because as CC, he does have some authority.

Knowing what this man was like, why on earth would anyone give him the position of CC? Publicity Chair, maybe, but CC!?

This is not up to the boys to correct. I'm with Linda, contact your COR & UC and sit this man down for a serious talk about his responsibilities, his behavior, & the consequences of his behavior. Allowing him to continue like this could have serious repercussions on your recruitment. I sure as heck would not be recommending your Troop to my Webelos if I was a WDL.

[wagionvigil]

Always remember when all else fails contact your Scout Executive and explain he is not helping but hurting the troop and the boys. The SE really needs NO REASON to get rid of him. Just a letter. "Dear Sir you are no longer registered with the BSA" thats it, no recourse, no questions.
This has been done several times over many years in my council for various reasons.

PS A couple of parents raising the roof usually helps.

[Troop173Scoutmaster]

Our adult leaders have very clear "job descriptions." No matter the position, the first line is "The troop is led by the boys!" This is a clear reminder where we "rank" as adults.

Our Charter Org is hands-off as we recently approached them to take us on. They are beginning to be taught what will become their role. Because of this, I am the responsible adult w/ my CC. We are the "senior" adults in the troop, but are both OPENLY training new adults to fill all the adult positions and eventually take our places.

When new "energy" oversteps its bounds, a clear moment of redirection has taken care of the problem. We've also found that on camp outs when we have parent-guests, we let them know that they will be part of the adult patrol and are expected to follow our lead. This makes great fun for the adults, and they don't find time to meddle in the boys' activities or leadership responsibilities. Using the patrol method as adults, the parent-guests begin to better understand why the boys do the things they do.

[jhawk]

Just an update--I think the adult in question might be a reader here and recognized himself! ha Anyway, something happened, because not long after I posted this he backed waaaaaay off. he wasn't even at meetings for over a month and came back mellow. Maybe he was in control-freak rehab or something. He is starting to get a little more wound up as of this week's meeting, but hopefully he will keep a lid on things.
Thanks for all the advice. As always, most of the advice given here is helpful and useful. Even when we disagree on a topic, when you put all of our thoughts together, we all benefit in some way, I think.
I really appreciate this site and the collective knowledge we have access to. (Even the rare post that seems so off the wall helps, even if only to solidify the thought process in an opposite direction! ha) So, thanks to everyone who participates in this board on any topic.

[Lynda J]

I am glad things are working out. Our District did a program at Round Table a couple of years ago related to this very thing. How adults can ruin a troop by trying to run things.

My own troop is an example. When our SM took over it was down to 4 boys. The existing SM and CC made all the decissions. Including what the boys cooked and when they camped, which badges they worked on. The boys were leaving in mass. Our current SM took over and the first year the troop grew to 7. Then our boys crossed over and that made it 12. We now have 15, which is a good number for our area. But he lets the boys run just about everything but with an eye on the safety factor and a slight hand to guide. We have a great troop and I have wonderful respect for our SM.

[Quailman]

bah!

Our SM got too busy at his new job, so he resigned, and the committee selected an ASM who has been heavily involved to succeed him. In fact, he has been too involved. The CC told him if he wanted to be SM, he'd have to resign as cubmaster at his pack, and his district roundtable position and his district commisioner position so he could devote more time to us.

The first Monday of every month is our PLC meeting (only boys with PORs) for planning the month's programs. The new SM had a conflict and he chose to unilaterally move the meeting time forward an hour. My son could not make it. I told the CC that I felt the new SM was putting his attendance at the meeting ahead of the attendance of the boys on the PLC. I know of at least one other who could not make the new time.

I think this bothers me more since it is the first meeting after he was named SM than it would have if it was two months from now. As it is, I am ready to start looking at other troops if he doesn't step back and let the boys run the troop. He's always had a heavy hand in it anyway. Now with the official SM title I am afraid it will get out of control.

Sorry. I just had to vent somewhere other than the CC. BTW, I am an ASM who did not want the job myself. There was another canididate whom I'd have preferred.

[deweylure]

Just come out and say it to the scouter. Let him know that the Troop members have specific resposnsibilities and he he taking over . Doing this does not help the scouts learn.

Deweylure