Why Rush?

[ronin718]

The timing of events for Bob's son was quite amazing and truly a matter of the stars aligning. His troop had three campouts in one month, so that took care of the mandatory camping trips. The troop was very active that month with many activities, so there went the 10 required events.

I'm not sure I'd want my son to go Scout to First Class in so short a time, but if it works, it works. My son just finished his reqs for First Class and will be doing his BoR tonight. He crossed over in September, so that's eight months to go from Scout to FC, and the first few months were pretty active. He's already received approval to take on a Den Chief role at his old pack, and they're a year-round pack, so he'll be able to have his leadership time for Star done when he hits his one-year mark.

If he continues his present pace, he could be a 12 y/o Eagle. I don't know that he'll get there, but the possibility exists. I'm not going to push or pull in either direction, but I will make it possible for him to attend any activities he chooses. IMO, that's the way it should be.

[optimist]

But what's the rush? Eagle at 11 years old! Get a life.

Everybody's different. It's extremely unusual for a Scout to get Eagle at 12 much less 11. Obviously, someone doing this at eleven is not the norm and in truth instead of considering it a rush it should be considered the right thing for that particular Scout.

[smtroop168]

Wow. Three troop campouts and 10 events in one month! Does anyone else know of a troop that camps that much in a month or is that active? What did they do for an encore the next month? I'd love to see their annual schedule to get ideas.

I read in Boys Life awhile back about a troop that went on a campout for 435 consecutive months.

[Scouting179]

If BSA felt an requirement were needed for any rank or MB, they'd make it so. BUt, they haven't so there is NO AGE REQUIREMENT for ANY rank and MB and I'm tired of people trying to say it's so when it isn't. You can not add to or subtract from the requirments. Making Eagle is a one's own journey and because it is good for Person A to make it just before 18 doesn't mean it's good for Person B. THink of it this way, would you prefer kids who make Eagle at the last minute and leave or one who makes it at 12/13 whatever and stays. If he's motivated enough to make it young, so be it.

[lifescoutforlife]

I think the biggest problem people have is what they think a eagle scout should be.National has already set up the requirements for what they need to do to be a eagle, nothing more nothing less. If a boy meets all these requirements then he is a eagle reguardless what anyone thinks they should be able to do. Me and OGB took advancement training from 2 members of national board that teach out at Philmont. One of the things that that they tested us on was eagle packets and what was wrong on them. The last one had a 12 year old wanting a eagle board, they wanted people to say he was to young but no one did. No scout should have any age requirements put on them for rank or MB's plain and simple. I understand that there is state laws that stop some scouts from taking MB's at certian ages but that should be the only way there should be a age requirement. If they make eagle at a young age, everyone should be telling them congrats not saying they are to young or they rushed to eagle.

[Craft Lady]

Well said lifescoutforlife,

My son just made Star. I was really suprised at the variety of ages up there at the COH. My son was the youngest at 12 years and 2 months. Now he has consistenly been on of the youngest because of the way the cut off was when he started Kindergarten. Back then the cut off was June 1st. So there was only 2 months and 6 days that a child could be born after him and be the same grade as he was. Also June 1st meant born BEFORE not on or Before.

So the boy that got his Scout rank that he is friends with from Cubs, that was born June 2nd is not really that much younger then him but my son has been in Boy Scouts a year longer then he has.

Well actually a year and 3 months because my son was frusterated with being told he COULDN'T get his AOL at 10 1/2 even though he had done all the work. So my son talked to the CM, and the SM, got his AOL and said good-bye to a pack that adds requirments that are not there like "You have to wait till March." So he crossed in December. He would have been more then content to wait till March if he had not been informed he HAD TO.

I kept warning the Den leader that was doing this. I told him... He knows he turns 10 1/2 on his grandmother's birthday. So he knows that he can earn his AOL then. He wants to stick around till March because he still has goals he wants to achieve (like earning every belt-loop, which he fell 2 shy of) and you have activities he wants to do. However he also is strong willed enough that if you make this an issue so will he.

I think that is what we run risk of. When boys know that you are adding requirments we run the risk of frusterating them. I think it is a way of saying they have to follow the rules but the adults don't have to.

My son would be very upset if he was told he couldn't get his Eagle because of his age. Thankfully he is not told that. The troop has a wide variety of ages that boys earn Eagle. Some are young, and some squeak by at the last minute. The average age seems to be 15-16.


Just my 2cents

Jennifer

[pipestone1991]

ALso put a requirement in that all advancement must be submitted at least 45 day before a scouts 18th BD.

We'd go from 50,000 new Eagle Scouts a year to around 2,500...

[pipestone1991]

I was just being a devils advocate Why worry if a scout is young or at the wire? The main thing is he did it.

And this is the best post of them all......2-5% of all scouts become Eagle....who cares when they did it!

[Lynda J]

Be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge.

No where in the requirements for AOL say nothing about the boy not being able to earn AOL before he is 10.5.

Is the Den Leader Trained. If not then try to get training. If they have been trained then you need to have a Unit Commissioner talk to the leader.

[Mrw]

December is about 6 months after completing fourth grade and if the boy in question turned 10 1/2 in December, then either way, he met this part of the requirement in December, and not before.

And he was right that there was no NEED to wait until March to cross-over to scouts although most boys do.

[ronin718]

So true, mrw. My son is a perfect example. He completed his AoL in August and turned 10 1/2 the same month. He crossed in September. He's now a First Class, taken on a Den Chief role in his old pack, and is ready to have fun at his first Scout Camp. I think it's going to be a busy summer.

Don't let the immovable objects impede the unstoppable forces.

[Craft Lady]

Yes the den leader was trained. NOT only that he was and is on the Training team!?! The new unit commisoner knows! Her and I are friends from Day Camp Staff. The former one didn't care he was to buddy buddy with the den leader.

My son actually turned 10 1/2 Septermber 25th. So he met the 6 months requirement by both age and grade. He only took till December to have his SM confrence because he did not decide on a which troop he wanted to go till December.

He loves Boy Scouts so much more and the biggest reason is that his troop follows the rules. No disregarding the G2SS when it is inconvient. No changing or ignoring things when they don't fit the plans of the pack.

The unit commisioner asked me to sit down with her after Day camp is over and tell her what I know goes on that they need "help" with. They know the rules, and they know the training because 2 of the main leaders are on the training team. So that is not the problem.

The way the DL was trying to keep him from crossing over was he would not let my son show he knew the Boy Scout stuff he needed to know like describing the Scout badge, saying the promise and law. So my son went to the CM once he picked troop and the DL had again said NO wait till March. The CM said that if the DL would not let him do those requirments for him, then he could do them for the CM. The next night was a committe meeting. My husband and I were on the committe. The DL and the CM pulled my son aside and let him show he knew the required items. However if my son had not called the CM the DL would never have let him get his AOL till March.

Jennifer

[ronin718]

Sounds like it's time for the Committee to start looking for a new DL. I know I as a parent would be looking for this guy's head.

[Wapiti]

Scoutaholic, I wish not to offend, but here is my story:

I've just returned from Philmont (Expedition 706) with my son who turned 14 on 5 Jul. He's a great kid and Scout who has 40 MB. He wants to work at Summer Camp and be a Philmont Ranger.

He's not ready for Eagle, IMO.

On our sister crew was an Eagle Scout from a LDS Troop, who's 14. This Scout, clearly was not worthy of his rank. He never once set up his tent, his father did. For the last week of the trek, he never carried anything, not even his own backpack. His crew carried it for him. This boy whined and complained for 12 days.

Our SM aske this boy how many MB he earned and what Eagle required MB. He didn't know. He never had a dutch oven dessert or dinner.

Growing up in Idaho, I've known many fine LDS and Eagle Scouts, but this Scout was given an award he didn't earn.

[scoutaholic]

Scoutaholic, I wish not to offend, but here is my story:

I've just returned from Philmont (Expedition 706) with my son who turned 14 on 5 Jul. He's a great kid and Scout who has 40 MB. He wants to work at Summer Camp and be a Philmont Ranger.

He's not ready for Eagle, IMO.

On our sister crew was an Eagle Scout from a LDS Troop, who's 14. This Scout, clearly was not worthy of his rank. He never once set up his tent, his father did. For the last week of the trek, he never carried anything, not even his own backpack. His crew carried it for him. This boy whined and complained for 12 days.

Our SM aske this boy how many MB he earned and what Eagle required MB. He didn't know. He never had a dutch oven dessert or dinner.

Growing up in Idaho, I've known many fine LDS and Eagle Scouts, but this Scout was given an award he didn't earn.

No offense taken.

I have also seen too many scouts who got their Eagle and didn't deserve it, or who don't act like an Eagle after they receive it. However, I don't think it has much to do with the age at which they receive the award.

The 14-year-old Eagles I mentioned in my previous post earned theirs. One is currently serving as JASM. Both continue to do scouting (sometimes on their own, since the team and crew don't do anything). Both continue to earn MBs and Palms. I've seen plenty of boys get Eagle and 17.999 who were less deserving than these.

I can't vouch for every Eagle, not even every Eagle that I know. However, I can say that nobody gets Eagle on my watch unless they earn it.

[maricopasem]

Scoutaholic, I wish not to offend, but here is my story:

I've just returned from Philmont (Expedition 706) with my son who turned 14 on 5 Jul. He's a great kid and Scout who has 40 MB. He wants to work at Summer Camp and be a Philmont Ranger.

He's not ready for Eagle, IMO.

On our sister crew was an Eagle Scout from a LDS Troop, who's 14. This Scout, clearly was not worthy of his rank. He never once set up his tent, his father did. For the last week of the trek, he never carried anything, not even his own backpack. His crew carried it for him. This boy whined and complained for 12 days.

Our SM aske this boy how many MB he earned and what Eagle required MB. He didn't know. He never had a dutch oven dessert or dinner.

Growing up in Idaho, I've known many fine LDS and Eagle Scouts, but this Scout was given an award he didn't earn.

I'm curious as to why religion has anything to do with your story. Why the focus on the LDS Eagle Scout?

And what does Dutch oven cooking have to do with being an Eagle?

[ronin718]

No where in the requirements for AOL say nothing about the boy not being able to earn AOL before he is 10.5.

I think this is where that idea comes from:

"Be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge."

There are two possible scenarios here -- (1) The boy turns 10 during the fourth grade year, activating the part of the requirement in parenthesis, and (2) the boy is 9 y/o at the end of fourth grade, starting the clock upon grade completion.

Since the typical boy turns 10 during his fourth grade year, the earliest the boy would be able to put it on would be six months after his 10th birthday. While it is possible to earn it at a younger age, it is not often the case. This would only happen, as was my case, when the 10th birthday occurs during the summer following the fourth grade.

Either way, the boy should be able to put it on before March.

[ronin718]

I really need to look at dates before responding. I didn't realize Lynda's response was over two months old.

[evmori]

Scoutaholic, I wish not to offend, but here is my story:

I've just returned from Philmont (Expedition 706) with my son who turned 14 on 5 Jul. He's a great kid and Scout who has 40 MB. He wants to work at Summer Camp and be a Philmont Ranger.

He's not ready for Eagle, IMO.

On our sister crew was an Eagle Scout from a LDS Troop, who's 14. This Scout, clearly was not worthy of his rank. He never once set up his tent, his father did. For the last week of the trek, he never carried anything, not even his own backpack. His crew carried it for him. This boy whined and complained for 12 days.

Our SM aske this boy how many MB he earned and what Eagle required MB. He didn't know. He never had a dutch oven dessert or dinner.

Growing up in Idaho, I've known many fine LDS and Eagle Scouts, but this Scout was given an award he didn't earn.

I'm curious as to why religion has anything to do with your story. Why the focus on the LDS Eagle Scout?

And what does Dutch oven cooking have to do with being an Eagle?

Scouting to the LDS faith is their youth program run the way they want to run it which isn't necessarily the way the BSA intended the program to be run. Most leaders are untrained & rotate every couple years.

One would think an Eagle would know how cook using a dutch oven.

[ronin718]

Scouting to the LDS faith is their youth program run the way they want to run it which isn't necessarily the way the BSA intended the program to be run.

FOUL!!!

Yes, the LDS folks do have slight variations on their program from the standard BSA format, but they still have to follow the same rules for advancements.

The reason for their younger Eagles is because they put a greater emphasis on the basic Scouting program in the 11-13 y/o age group. The 14-18 y/o groups are sent into Varsity/Venturing with less emphasis on MBs, and subsequently rank advancement.

As for the training and tenure of their Scouters, this is something they've acknowledged and are supposedly working on.