eagle project

[Chief J]

Sounds like they did a nice service project and that is all.

The Scoutmaster should never accept this as their Eagle Project, and the Advancement Chair should never accept this as their Eagle Project. And by my understanding, they still need a Scoutmaster Conference after all other requirements are complete and before their board of review.

And I agree with the others, sounds like a serious breach of Scout Spirit, i.e., "A Scout is Trustworthy"

I agree shame they were clueless, but I am sure if they asked they could have been pointed in the right direction.

Best Regards,
Chief J

[FrankJ]

If the council is fully aware of the facts, I would say chances of approval is next to nil.

[lifescoutforlife]

If the council is fully aware of the facts, I would say chances of approval is next to nil.

Right right they are slim to none and I think slim left town.

[hacimsaalk]

well, both boys have awhiel to go before they can even think about working on their eagle rank, as both boys just recently became star (one was after the project was over).

as far as the SM accepting it, he didnt have much choice. they set stuff up, went with it, and didnt do the paperwork. they were jus tplain lazy. i dont think they really wanted to get the help they needed to find out wut they really needed to do. i figure the advancement chair (from the troop ) will accept it b/c its one of the boys mothers.

it really does breach "a scout is trustworthy". the willingly disobeyed plain and simple guidelines to get a crummy project done.

now as far as a good project goes, if you ask me, it just sucked (please excuse the language). the wildlife refuge (where they did the project) pretty much planned the entire thing. they did just about tnothing. they were part of a community day. all they did was help with a fishing station (showed people how it was done). that was about it. from what i understand, there was about 0 leadership on their part. it defintly isnt what i would submit as one of the most important requirements for my eagle rank. and, it certainly wasnt worthy of a tag-team effort. it was just a cheap way for both boys to get it done and over with real quick.

[Swim4lyfe]

If they didn't do their paperwork, the project isn't valid as a regular service project I think. Those boys should face reprecussions worse than a phony project if you ask me... That's just sad.

[hacimsaalk]

If they didn't do their paperwork, the project isn't valid as a regular service project I think. Those boys should face reprecussions worse than a phony project if you ask me... That's just sad.

what would you suggest? cant really delay them or anything (adding to reqs).

[wagionvigil]

ALl paper work must be done prior to the project. ALl approvals must be signed including the Council Representative. TheProject date cannot be prior to the date the scout has and passes his Life BOR. The Eagle Project Booklet is very specific as to what and when.

[FrankJ]

Accepting for what? As service hours for Star. Probably. We will accept almost any legitimate community service for star & life service hours. YTMV (your troop may vary). As eagle project? It just is not. It will not past council review. Your council does review eagle apps.? If the BOR looks at the dates it pass will not them either. Not a question of adding to the requirements

[Mrw]

The fact that the approvals that count most for the project is started need to come from the district/council level seems to have escaped these boys, and possibly their parents.

Not only would this not be given to a boy who is not already Life rank, the project done would not meet the requirements of being of lasting value to the community.

Regardless of what the immediate consequence is here, they will need to do appropriate projects when they are Life scouts to earn Eagle.

All I see as an appropriate immediate consequence, is that the boys and their parents are talked to, and the requirements for earning Eagle, and the project part of that, needs to be explained to them.

I have seen it mentioned that a scout is trustworthy should factor into this. From the way I see it, cluueless is the operative word here. If they realized what the requirements are, they would have not tried to call it an Eagle project.

[scoutaholic]

An Eagle project has to be done (and planned) while a boy is a Life scout. The project paperwork has to be approved with 4 signatures prior to starting, and then 2 more signatures before it is turned in for final processing.

No SM who is worthy of his position will sign the paperwork for this project. He has to sign for his approval before the project, and then sign again that the project was completed satisfactorilly. Obviously he can't pre-approve the project, because the boys aren't qualified to start an Eagle project yet. If the boys were truelly not doing the Eagle share of the project (planning and leadership), then he shouldn't sign that it was satisfactorilly completed even they had gotten it approved in advance.

The Troop Advancement Chair (or Troop Committee Chairman) also has to sign a pre-approval. Again, they aren't qualified to do an Eagle project, and should not be approved for such by any good advancement chair. The Advancement Chair should know the rules. If the advancement chair is the mother of one of these boys, and approves it because of that relationship, then shame on her.

The signatures from the organization that benefits from the project (both before and after) may be reasonably easy for the boys to get. Sometimes these organizations don't know the rules of Eagle projects, and they shouldn't be expected to check on a scouts record to see if they qualify. That is the reason for the other signatures.

The last pre-approval signature required is from the District/Council advancement committee (Each council has some leeway and makes their own determination of who this should be). Again, there is no way that these boys should be able to get this signature.

After the project is completed, the project paperwork goes into the council along with their Eagle application, and is 'carefully' checked to make sure all the dates match, etc. (Our council isn't as careful about the checking as they should be, but this one sounds like even our council would catch it.) The the project papers and the Eagle application are sent to the Board of Review. Even if the papers made it this far, the Board of Review is not obligated to approve these boys for Eagle rank if they obviously haven't completed the project (or other requirements).

This project you have described stands no chance of getting all the approval signatures, and without them, the Eagle paperwork won't be approved.

It was nice of these boys to volunteer some time for the wildlife refuge. They can each count some time towards the six hours needed for their Star or Life ranks, assuming the SM approved the project for service hours. (The boy who received his star after the project can count them towards Star, but shouldn't be allowed to count them for Life.) However, this was not an Eagle Project. We can all see that, and if the boys don't already see that, then they will be sadly disappointed later when they have to do a real Eagle Project.

[spl08]

they fudged their life rank

. right off the bat, their project is invalid (as many others have already pointed out).

they did the project with only the organizations signature.

if they had life and then did that, it still would be invalid.

they didnt even write up their paperwork (b4 completing their project).

so far it just sounds like they did a nice service project for the community and won't get get the project checked off (as they shouldn't).

they are planning on writing it all up and sending it in w/o the advancements chair signature, crossing their fingers and hoping for the best.

:shock:

im not sure where the SM was in all this.

scoutmaster generally doesn't have a whole of say in Eagle Projects, it's pretty much just the Troop Committee (on the troop level).

i talked to the scouts first (off by themselves)

good job on your part! asking them instead of asking around, praise in public critize in private. good stuff to go by.

and they had no clue about anything, not where their paperwork was, not if they got their signatures. im pretty much unimpressed at this point.

yeah, i don't think this is much of an issue anymore (unless by some wild, crazy and random chance they get signed off).

any thoughts???

Invalid project. That's all there is to it. One thing I'm kind of wondering about though is if this is something to have on a forum; I can't imagine this would go over vary well if anybody from your troop saw this on here. But then again, I've been wrong before; it may be something okay to have on here. Thoughts on that anybody?

[Mrw]

One thing I'm kind of wondering about though is if this is something to have on a forum; I can't imagine this would go over vary well if anybody from your troop saw this on here. But then again, I've been wrong before; it may be something okay to have on here. Thoughts on that anybody?

This type of discussion is exactly what the forum is for. If someone from the troop saw it, there should be no problem.

If they saw themselves as being the ones under discussion (anonymously I might add) then they should take it as education about how to do it right.

My experience has generally been that the ones who ought to be learning from a discussion though, rarely see themselves when they should and so never learn.

[hacimsaalk]

One thing I'm kind of wondering about though is if this is something to have on a forum; I can't imagine this would go over vary well if anybody from your troop saw this on here. But then again, I've been wrong before; it may be something okay to have on here. Thoughts on that anybody?

well, my troop # isnt on here, and i think this is pretty discreet. prolly wont know.

[ASM-142]

The only thing that concerns me about this is that a scout is bringing this up and not a scouter.

[Chief J]

] im not sure where the SM was in all this.

scoutmaster generally doesn't have a whole of say in Eagle Projects, it's pretty much just the Troop Committee (on the troop level).

I disagree, one of the signatures required on the Eagle project writeup is the Scoutmaster's (or Unit Leader). Therefore, the SM has alot of say in the project. In my unit, I as SM see the project writeup and work with the Scout before my committee sees the project.

Also, as everyone has stated this does not qualify as an Eagle project that was conducted while a Life Scout, therefore unless these individuals conduct an Eagle project while a Life Scout, they will never be able to complete the requirements for their Eagle rank.

Finally, I know in our District when you get ready for your Eagle BOR, you must bring your completed project with you to the BOR meeting. At that time, the BOR will determine if the project was conducted as planned and approved. If they say no, then the Ealge Project requirement is not completed. Furthermore, the BOR must be unanimous for the Scout to be awarded the rank of Eagle. If the District Advancement Rep sitting on this board says "no" it is no.

Chief J

[evmori]

spl08 wrote:
hacimsaalk wrote:
] im not sure where the SM was in all this.
scoutmaster generally doesn't have a whole of say in Eagle Projects, it's pretty much just the Troop Committee (on the troop level).

Not true! The SM must sign the Eagle workbook prior to DAC approval & at the completion of the project.

[maricopasem]

The only thing that concerns me about this is that a scout is bringing this up and not a scouter.

Just because it's not brought up on here doesn't mean it's not being brought up somewhere else by someone with stewardship.

[Swim4lyfe]

The only thing that concerns me about this is that a scout is bringing this up and not a scouter.

Just because it's not brought up on here doesn't mean it's not being brought up somewhere else by someone with stewardship.

Besides, It's a Scout's duty to bring up matters like this. What's your issue, 142?

[ASM-142]

My issue is that advancement iof a scout s not the business of another scout but the scout himself and the scouters. The scout that brought up this issue most likely does not have all the facts which a scouter would have.

[Swim4lyfe]

Obviously the Scoutmaster didn't know what was going on, or the boys wouldn't have done the project. There's no reason why a Scout should have any less say than a Scouter, especially since the boy seems like he knows more about what's going on than the Scouters.