PLC PROBLEM

[t305spl]

Hey I have a PLC of ALL new scouts oldest are in their second year of scouting. I have 4 years of scouting plus Cub Scouts and I am Trained. I realized at the PLC meeting we had a few weeks back the scouts were complaining about not having fun in scouts or not making any decisions as a PLC. I focused more on that at the last PLC and realized the SM(who is a guest) was throwing out ideas and then finalizingthem because the scouts were to afraid to speak up and try to change it. I dont blame them, I would feel that way too. So I had a PLC meeting with no adults and it worked fabulously. They decided what the troop needs and completed all our tasks. After the meeting I asked them if they liked this meeting better, and they all said yes. Are we allowed to have a PLC Meeting with no adults present? If not can we have a meeting with no adults present till the end when we bring them in then tell them what we decided? Its just not working with the SM there. And some ASM's realize that.

[commish3]

While I commend you for your evaluation of the situation and shifting the attention to getting the job done, I would urge you to seek a compromise that would allow the SM to remain in the meeting and still allow you to get input and consensus from the patrol leaders.

Perhaps you can get the SM to sit in the back behind the scouts and out of their line of sight.

The SM serves a purpose at these meetings and needs to be there, altho he does not need to actively participate unless called upon to do so.

In fact the less he does during the meeting the better. But there are times you will want his input, and he needs to be able to evalute the needs and skills of the PLC as they operate.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Our greenbar has had meetings without the SM but has had other adults present. You should still have 2 deep leadership at any scout event.

[Guneukitschik]

Our PLC has had meetings and us leaders leave the room while they work out all the details...then we return at the end of the meeting.
The temptation is difficult for leaders to run the meeting and make the plans for the scouts...that's where training comes into play.l


I personally think the meetings function better when leaders are not present...


I completely agree that 2 deep leadership is required....

But what about the patrol that meets at a patrol members house on their own to hold their own patrol meeting? Does a leader need to be present?

[RWSmith]

I completely agree that 2 deep leadership is required....

But what about the patrol that meets at a patrol members house on their own to hold their own patrol meeting? Does a leader need to be present?

I'd say no. In fact, the G2SS says, "There are a few instances such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required." Here's a thought... Hold the PLC at the SPL's house this month, and then at another YL's house next month.

I really like the idea of having adults nearby... but not at the table. Wow!

For you Amateur Radio people... YL means, "Youth Leader" here.

[BM_Crawford]

An intreging idea. Unfortunately in my troop the kids dont seem to want to say anything, the adults try not to get involved but its like pulling teeth to get them to talk lol.

Thats why we are doing that troop jltc (mentioned in other post)

[PaulSWolf]

I completely agree that 2 deep leadership is required....

But what about the patrol that meets at a patrol members house on their own to hold their own patrol meeting? Does a leader need to be present?

I'd say no. In fact, the G2SS says, "There are a few instances such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required." Here's a thought... Hold the PLC at the SPL's house this month, and then at another YL's house next month.

Actually, 2 deep leadership is NEVER required for a simple meeting, so long as at least 3 people are present (i.e. one leader & 2 scouts or 2 leaders and 1 scout). 2 deep leadership is required only for TRIPS and OUTINGS. The line just before the one quoted above states:

Two-deep leadership: Two registered adult leaders, or one registered adult and a parent of a participating Scout, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings.

[Chief J]

I agree, I like the idea of the adults being nearby, but not at the same table, or even same room. I am going to do that at my next PLC.

This should stop me (the Scoutmaster) from opening my mouth and influencing the council.

Thanks for the tip, I never thought of that.
-Chief J

[Lynda J]

The SM and I will have ideas that we bring to the PLC. We always have them typed and a copy for each boy. We give them the sheets and leave the room. We will go over other things. It give us a time to sort out other problems or paper work. We will normally go over where the boys are in advancement. Talk about which boy might need extra attention or help.
If the boys need we we are close but we are not in a position of the boys thinking we are trying to control the meeting. At the end of the meeting the boys go over what they have decided. If there is something we have a problem with then we talk with them about how they are going to make it work. This last one they planned a trip to the National BSA Museum, and three camping trips. They also discussed the boy that we were having so much trouble with. About what they as PL's could maybe do.

[t305spl]

The SM and I will have ideas that we bring to the PLC. We always have them typed and a copy for each boy. We give them the sheets and leave the room.

Isnt that the SPL's job to create the adgenda with the SM and then the SPL type it up and hand it out. Not the adult leaders.

[don]

t305spl
I sort of had the same question, but my question is what kind of ideas?
I thought the best way would be to give these ideas to the SPL before the PLC so he can decide to use them or not.

[Lynda J]

Yes it is, and they do most of it. Our district Round Table is the night before our PLC. I always go to RT and bring back the information of activities that the Council is holding. Plus things like The Hockey Scout Night. The Baseball Scout Night. The boys wouldn't have access to this. It isn't that we give them a list of things they have to chose from. Just some things that they may not be aware of.

Last month Ft. Worth was doing a Sister City program. I had a customer bring me the information and suggested that the boys might be interested. I took it to the PLC meeting. They looked at and it and decided they didn't want to do it. But that they might be interested in something in the future. So I will keep giving them the informaiton as I get it. I would have loved for them to have gone but it was their decission.

[BM_Crawford]

2 things, an adult leader can make suggestions the plc just doesnt have to go along with them and I think if you have an idea you should present, if the spl doesnt like the idea he doesnt always speak the minds of the rest of the plc, others might want to do different activities that the spl doesnt want to do.

We are haveing a problem with this currently where the spl is working the troop around his schedual and what he wants vs the collective plc and the troop's entirety.

[optimist]

Using the BSA's Annual Program Planning Kit as an example, the Scoutmaster is directed to develop a proposed annual troop plan to be reviewed by the Senior Patrol Leader and the Patrol Leaders Council. The documentation emphasizes that the patrol leaders need to understand that they will develop and vote on the actual annual troop program.

I think that makes it clear that it is expected that the PLC does not plan the troop's program in a vacuum, that leaders are expected to provide information and suggestions to the Scouts to help them operate a good troop. They key is figuring out when you need to provide direction and when you need to back off. This is different for every troop depending on the experience and maturity of the boy leadership so it will take time and patience to figure out what best suits your troop.

So yes, there are troops where adults are all but unneeded at PLCs because the Scouts have been around the block and they have things well in hand. And yes, there are troops where the adults need to provide outlines and other materials because the Scouts are so new at this they don't realize a sleeping bag and a sleeping pad are two different things. Keep working at it and you'll figure it out.