Scout Not Ready

[OldGrayOwl]

What do you do when A scout has finished everything, but just isn't "there" as far as getting the highest rank BSA has to offer.
I have a scout in my troop that has gone downhill very fast and far concerning leadership quality AND scout spirit. He is the type of person right now that you would not want in your troop. He won't help out the younger scouts, is a real determent to the troop and adult leaders at meetings and on campouts. Some have told me to give him his SMC, just to get him out of the troop, but I just can't do that. (I have been SM at this troop for just over a year, I have not had much contact with the boy at all. He doesn't come to meetings or go on campouts very regularly. I gave him other responsibilities to do, but he doesn't do them unless he is really pushed by either me or by one of my ASM's. He makes fun of any and all boy leaders in the troop as well.

What do you suggest?

[FrankJ]

Do not sign off on scout spirit. To me, no longer being active in the troop is not a scout spirit thing, but disrespect to scouts & adult is. Be prepared to list specifically why he has not met scout spirit & what he needs to do improve it. It is helpful to also discuss this with your committee chair & advancement chair since that will be the next people mom or dad will be calling.

If the scout is real eagle material, a meaningfully conversation is possible ending in a positive way.

Good luck

[smtroop168]

You can hold a SMC for reasons other than advancement. If you do set this up as his Eagle SMC, then remember all the requirement says is that he must "take part in a SMC" and then he would be able to go to a EBOR regardless of how you felt. A Scout cannot fail a SMC. This has been covered in detail in other parts of this forum. You will have the opportunity to fill out one of the letters of recommendation but the scout will be allowed to have a EBOR. The EBOR will make their assessment and should they decide he's not "there", he will be afforded the opportunity to appeal.

You don't say how old this scout is or if there are other personal things happening in his life (you may not be privy to). This is the basis I would use to have an "other than advancement" SMC.

My opinion. Hope it works out for all.

[pipestone1991]

My SM thought I was "not ready" and gave me a 3 month probation period before I could earn it. Naturally, it over four months to do so . While I admitetly was a little immature I felt this was incredibly too harsh.In your case I do not feel this is the same. A probation period might open up his eyes....it did mine, and now I'm an Eagle Scout.

[OldGrayOwl]

The Scout just turned 16, so it's not like he is almost 18. The CC and I have talked to him about his behavior and Scout Spirit, but it seemed to have only worked for a little while. Some in my district suggested that I make him JASM so he can show the CC and myself that he is learning and improving.

What do you-all think?

[pipestone1991]

The Scout just turned 16, so it's not like he is almost 18. The CC and I have talked to him about his behavior and Scout Spirit, but it seemed to have only worked for a little while. Some in my district suggested that I make him JASM so he can show the CC and myself that he is learning and improving.

What do you-all think?

Tack on a probation period, I swear, it'll shut him up.

[jr56]

Fellow youth usually come up with the best ideas. Pipestone is right.

[Hubert]

I myself am a JASM. It is a job needing of maturity. I too am finishing up my Eagle, but I still try to help the other scouts. I have had this same issue before, and still am. But, thew SM has been told of my problems, and hes now aware of things that need to change.

But,

I agree with Pipestone, a probation usually makes the scout realize whats being done. NOw I say usually here, because there are them few that nothing works.

Another possibilty is to have the SM sit down and discuss the issue at hand with the youth and his parents. I think that if he gets a good talk in front of his parents, maybe something will change.

Just MHO.

[scouter01]

isn't adding a probation adding another req? I don't think thats allowed

[pipestone1991]

isn't adding a probation adding another req? I don't think thats allowed

Nope, it's accually a good idea.

[FrankJ]

Probation in and of itself would be adding to the requirements. Tying it to something like scout spirit for reason would not be. Something like you have not shown scout spirit by doing ... so you need to improve ...

[pipestone1991]

Probation in and of itself would be adding to the requirements. Tying it to something like scout spirit for reason would not be. Something like you have not shown scout spirit by doing ... so you need to improve ...

That's what I mean.

[Mrw]

I agree with the probationary period. It gives the boy both a goal and a specific way to measure his behavior and attitude. And it gives him a schedule.

If specifying these things to the boy are what he needs to do to have the scout spirit requirement signed, then maybe he just does not want to finish. Did he do this for himself or because his Mommy and Daddy made him?

[Chief J]

Agree, tell him he has XX months to show scout spirit and then you will review his progress at that time.

Give him the specifics of what you do and don't like. Document your findings and stand by your decision.

Best of Luck,
Chief J

[smtroop168]

As in a lot of postings dealing with scouts who aren't "ready", we are looking for the solution that makes it all better. We also need the "Paul Harvey - rest of the story" sometimes to give the "sage advice" we all have. I still think a non-advancement SMC would be helpful laying out your concerns and finding out his.

I'm not a fan of probation or you've got xx amount of time to square yourself away unless the goal is to make the scout walk away. He's 16 and trying to figure out life. Help as much as he will let you.

[Mrw]

I would see a deadline here more as a time to follow up with the boy and review progress. It lets him know you are truly interested in him and what happens, not just in your numbers of Eagles produced as a bragging point.

"We will plan on sitting down again in eight weeks and see how you are doing. Please let me know at any time if there is something else I can do to help."

If I remember right, Pipestone was quite indignant about being told his scout spirit left something to be desired and the signatures on the Eagle application were going to be withheld for three months until he showed some improvement. Above here in this thread, he is acknowledging he needed to do some things differently.

[pipestone1991]

If I remember right, Pipestone was quite indignant about being told his scout spirit left something to be desired and the signatures on the Eagle application were going to be withheld for three months until he showed some improvement. Above here in this thread, he is acknowledging he needed to do some things differently.

It worked, didn't it?

[WeeWillie]

Denying a Scout advancement to Eagle is a serious matter and should not be taken lightly. However, what is the impact of allowing a deficient Scout to become an Eagle?

You are stealing from the Legacy of Honor associated with being an Eagle Scout from past, present and future Eagles who exemplify Scout Values and Scout Skills.

You are punishing Scouts who follow the rules by rewarding a Scout who doesn't.

You are telling Scout parents that you are not enforcing high behavior standards and their Scouts are subject to inappropriate behavior by older Scouts.

You are reinforcing to the Scout in question, that there is no negative consequence for negative behavior.

Years ago I had a SPL who was one merit badge and an Eagle project away from Eagle. Unfortunately, he fell into the wrong peer group at school and began misbehaving at meetings and outings. Because he was cool, he was a role model to some younger Scouts. He turned others off. We had a SMC with dad. I identified the defficient behaviors, corrective actions, and milestones to sucess. He decided to drop out. It was tough because I was his Bear and Webelos DL in addition to SM. His dad was always involved. We were both disappointed.

Later I found out that several parents were looking to transfer their Scouts to another troop and others to drop out entirely. Seems like a pretty high price to allow a deficient Scout recognition he didn’t earn. Advancement is not an entitlement.

[mhjacobson]

I have a scout in my troop that has gone downhill very fast and far concerning leadership quality AND scout spirit. He is the type of person right now that you would not want in your troop.

This is the kind of situation that calls for an immediate SMC. Remember SMC's are not only for the purpose of rank. Whenever there is a change in the behavior of a scout, the SM should step in with a conference.

From the behaviors that the poster describes, it looks as if there was a sudden change in behavior, and there is usually a reason behind this. If the SM gets down to the reason for the behavior, he often can 'help' the scout to solve the problem and revert to his once acceptable behavior. Boys of that age are looking for an adult who will listen to them, and whose better than the SM?