Earning Badges As A Troop

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Optimist - I think you've got this one wrong? The two of you must have an inside issue because in reading and re-reading this thread, I don't see where Commish has been a problem or out of line? I think you two should agree to disagree on this one!

I think this is an issue that has many sides to it. Certainly some badges are done in groups and can be done during a campout using a particular theme. And since a scout should never be alone with a MBC then obviously a MB isn't taught one on one. Of course a counselor may spend a few minutes with a scout at a meeting with no other scouts working on the badge at the same time.

I think there are several arguments within this thread. One being whether or not the SM can over ride a counselor stating that a scout has met the requirements, and unless there is an extreme reason, I would hope this wouldn't happen. Second being whether or not the majority of troops are now running MB sessions during regular scout meetings as a group activity which is done through out the year - and I hope your not saying that this is the norm? That is a factory line and I agree with others that this takes away from the individual scouts uniqueness as an individual. I would also hate to think that regular meetings are focused on MB sessions. Sounds like more glorified cub scouts again to me!

Too many benefits are had when scouts work in very small (2-4) groups and decide to reach out to a MBC to complete a MB. Adults shouldn’t be constantly prodding the boys to do badges. Everyone knows that with all the possible badges to be earned, most boys could earn more than they do but that’s because they lack the drive to continually work on badges. It’s not the main goal for most boys to just do badges. Most boys in our troop care about the ER badges and then pick up the main ones that are their hobbies or something that interests them. But when a boy does decide to contact an adult and complete a badge on their own, this is the growth part of the program at it’s finest, especially if it’s a MBC from outside the troop! Besides, is the focus to TEACH the boys MB’s or is it to reward those that decide to tackle and complete a badge?

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Forgot to mention - yes, a quest speaker or adult from the troop can certainly come in and address the troop with an activity, exposing items covered in a particular MB and then boys can go from there to finish the badge. I view this different than a troop that has MB sessions during meetings as a way to constantly complete badges, and to fill the meeting time with.

[RWSmith]

Optimist - I think you've got this one wrong? The two of you must have an inside issue because in reading and re-reading this thread, I don't see where Commish has been a problem or out of line? I think you two should agree to disagree on this one!

Dear Canoe, and everybody else for that matter:

Regarding "disruptive" Users, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a strong opinion; but, if that's all one has to offer -and- he refuses to allow others room to stand on their's, then he will not remain welcome for long. The aims and purpose of this board are established and governed by the owner of this Message Board, not Commish3. We're here to learn new or improved ways of Scouting (generally, advancement-related issues). This is a place where you, me and 13+ year-old Scouts should be able to freely, openly exchange ideas and our express opinions... without fear of getting pounced on by somebody! I have little patience for argumentative "law-givers" who bait Users simply for the sake of arguing, or so they can force their “my-way-is-the-right-way” opinions on other Users. We are all guests here, around Optimist’s campfire, so to speak--myself included. And we should act like it.

BTW, no offense, really. I have no problem whatsoever with you giving Optimist your opinion. But, I'm just trying to throw a little light on the subject. You can all rest assured that Optimist (and the other Moderators on this board are in full agreement on this and) knew full well where Commish3's behavior was going. The fact that it might not have been noticeable to all the other Users, yet, this time, was not the point. The point was, he'd been warned privately, specifically, repeatedly, to not start churning the board, again. This time, Optimist chose to meet problem head on. It’s not a pretty lesson; but sometimes it’s necessary.

One more thing... Just because somebody lacks inter-personal keyboarding skills, does not mean he/she is not a great guy, person, gal, Scout, Scouter, whatever.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

RWSmith - sorry if you took my comment as trying to jump in against Optimist. Wasn't trying to do that, just didn't see the threads in the same light as they must've been written in. Several of their comments do raise thoughts on different sides of these issues and this is why I suggested they agree to disagree. Also why I went on to discuss my thoughts on some of the sides to the issue.

Point taken and I for one have enjoyed and learned from this forum. My hat is off to those of you that work behind the scenes to keep this going!

[t305spl]

Yeah thanks again to all the people that work behind the scenes. I have learned and used alot of info from this site and it is extremely important to thank them for keeping this going. I have asked questions and have received many great answers and used them to make important decisions for my troop. Thanks Again to all the people who work behind the scene to keep this going.

[don]

????
RWSmith wrote
We're here to learn new or improved ways of Scouting
What does this mean?
To me it means that it is ok to change th BSA program to fit your troop. I never thought a leader should try to change the program, but to follow it.
If this is what you mean, I guess, I need to rethink my thoughts on scouting?
Since the official BSA website refers to this site, I have to assume, if the counselors say yes, it is ok to tweak the program, the BSA is agreeing with you.
I guess maybe I have seen to much tweaking from scout troops, that I have been around. Things like adding to advancements requirments, not allowing the SPL to pick his team, leaders running meetings, and so on.
Confused Don

[Whip & Fuse]

I am new to these forums, and hope I am not to jumping in uninvited. But I feel the need to interject into this discussion.

Scouting is a program. But any program, no matter how well thought out or well intentioned cannot encompass or make provision for every situation. We as leaders must insure that the individual needs of our scouts are being met by the program.

A program can be "tweaked" without abandoning it. I think we can all agree that the purpose of Scouting is not to pump out rank advancement or fill merit badge sashes. Our goal is to take a group of boys and, through nurture and guidance, give them the tools and opportunities they need to become men who can and do live by the twelve points of the Scout law. If some small accommodation can accomplish this, I believe it would be a disservice to the scouts and to the program itself if the program were not occasionally tweaked to meet that goal.

In my professional life, tweaking the program is a necessity. There are many occasions where it would be easy to follow the letter of the law without regard to the outcome of a particular situation. But just as important as the letter is the spirit of the law. That which the law was designed to accomplish is at times more important than the law itself.
If tweaking the program is wrong, then I am wrong, but I would rather be wrong trying to meet the needs of our scouts than be right and ignore those needs.

That being said, back to the thread topic. Our troop offers some group merit badge classes. The counselor makes it known to the scouts that he is available to teach a particular badge and asks that anyone interested see him during the meeting to go over the requirement. Any scouts wanting the badge then sees the SM and gets a blue card signed. But this is not the only way it is done. Scouts are encouraged to take any badge that interests them as long as the SM feels they are ready to take it. We will assist them in finding a counselor and insure that the buddy system is followed.

[ASM-142]

A program can be "tweaked" without abandoning it.

It may be OK to tweak the program as long as you do not change, eliminate, or add requirements.

[wagionvigil]

Changing Requirements or affecting requirements and Violating the National Charter ie: Camo and GTSS will get you everyime.

[OldGreyBear]

explain the camo reference please?

[wagionvigil]

CAmo is against the original charter as it is military. Regardless what variation is used.This was discussed at an earlier time in the forum you may check around for it. ALso this has little to do with the subject matter except in the context as to what you CAN get in trouble for.

[Rick Tyler]

CAmo is against the original charter as it is military. Regardless what variation is used.This was discussed at an earlier time in the forum you may check around for it. ALso this has little to do with the subject matter except in the context as to what you CAN get in trouble for.

I've been hearing this for four years, and I still can't find a written policy of BSA that forbids generic camoflauge clothing. BSA Rules and Regulations, Article X, Section 4, Clause 4(b) does include this: "Imitation of the United States Army, Navy, or Marine Corps uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of the organization's Congressional Charter." I don't think civilian camo clothing is any more an imitation of a military uniform than my LL Bean OD shirt is.

Can you point me to the specific policy on camo? Thanks!

(By the way, I'm personally opposed to camo clothing for a couple of reasons, I'm just not sure it is forbidden by BSA. I don't like the scouts to look like paramilitary troopers, and if a kid is lost I would like them to be easier to see.)

[wagionvigil]

Earlier we discussed with a web site take a peek through the forums and you will find the link.

[Rick Tyler]

Earlier we discussed with a web site take a peek through the forums and you will find the link.

The link is http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/camo.htm, and is Mike Walton's essay on the use of military uniforms as replacements for Scout uniforms, and the use of military-style camo pants in place of uniform pants. I agree with Mike that you can't substitute military-style uniform parts for BSA parts. I don't see Mike saying that camoflauge-pattern clothing is, per se, a violation of the scouting Rules and Regs.

Mike and I agree in saying that camo is a poor choice of color for Scouting clothing.

Thanks for the link.

[OldGreyBear]

I have always really been for wearing camo clothing on campouts as its some of the only outdoors clothes that actually goes on sale and is usually constructed pretty well. I dont advocate wearing with a filed uniform however. That being said I do notice a behavior difference in the scouts, in uniform and "regular" clothes they act one way but put a camo jacket on them and they start acting like Rambo. One of the interesting things I have noticed is that over the years the military style camo has disappeared from stores like K and wal mart anf has been replaced by "real tree" and other such designs. Cognizant of my earlier claim, I thinks its funny I havent seen a scout in Hunter's Camo, its always military style. Oh well perhaps we should define our charactor by our actions and not our clothing

[RWSmith]

RWSmith - sorry if you took my comment as trying to jump in against Optimist....

Oh, no. Not at all; I don't mind a bit. It wasn't really my intention to "stick up" for Optimist... We both (you and) were just expressing our opinions. We're cool.

[RWSmith]

I never thought a leader should try to change the program, but to follow it. If this is what you mean, I guess, I need to rethink my thoughts on scouting? .... I guess maybe I have seen to much tweaking from scout troops, that I have been around. Things like adding to advancements requirments, not allowing the SPL to pick his team, leaders running meetings, and so on. Confused Don

Oh, no. What I meant was, that nobody runs a perfect program. Nobody knows it all. We have so much to offer each other. There is so much we can learn from each other. Not about bending or changing rules; but, about better ways to build the mouse trap.

BTW, this is strictly my opinion, but I beleive we (in here) are purists. We preach (for lack of a better word) the "No more, no less." rule.

[ICanCanoeCanU]

Thanks RW - I feel better!

The summer camp we go to always states in bold print - NO CAMO allowed. We never questioned it but knew the reasons why.

[ASM-142]

I remember when back when I took my SM training that we were told then that CAMO was not allowed.

[mrsrayzor]

In our Troop, 2 of the 4 monthly meetings are dedicated to TFC advancement and a "program" introduction. The PLC annually plans the Troop calendar. A program (which almost always includes one or more Merit Badges) is chosen for each month.

The program/merit badge is introduced and worked on in these meetings (with a counselor), but the individual scout is responsible for getting with the merit badge counselor if he wishes to continue work on this badge. He has to work with a counselor and make sure he has met the requirements to get signed off. Sometimes scouts will assist in teaching some of the merit badge skills if possible.

At the same time, scouts may be working on any number of merit badges outside of the Troop meetings with many different counselors. Plus this is not very different from merit badge classes taught at most council summer & winter camps or merit badge colleges put on in the summertime.

Our Troop is a firm believer in a BOY run PROGRAM. The PROGRAM being the main responsiblity of the Scoutmaster (along with the PLC), not the Committee. Don't get excited, I don't mean the Committee members don't have a right to voice opinions to the Scoutmaster regarding the program, just that it's his or her final responsibility.

Having said all this, I see no reason to work on merit badges in some meetings if this is the boys choice, but all boys should not be "made" to work on any badge they are not interested in. Scouting is not a Merit Badge assembly line! As someone mentioned earlier, the idea is to introduce a subject to the scouts and hope you tweak a little interest in the subject!

Thanks for all the great input!

D Ray
Committee Chair
Troop 67
Mesquite, TX