Miniature Eagle Medal for Military?

[pipestone1991]

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!


The BSA is now selling a military dress medal for military uniforms. Only Eagle Scouts can purchase it.

[PaulSWolf]

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!

The BSA is now selling a military dress medal for military uniforms. Only Eagle Scouts can purchase it.

Where did you see that, and what is the stock number?

[pipestone1991]

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!

The BSA is now selling a military dress medal for military uniforms. Only Eagle Scouts can purchase it.

Where did you see that, and what is the stock number?

It says in the NESA mag I got with my Eagle Cert.....It says it's availiable through the BSA and NESA.

[RWSmith]

Pipestone1991,

Dude, you've gotta get specific. I can find no reference to anything related to "The BSA is now selling a military dress medal for military uniforms. Only Eagle Scouts can purchase it." I think this is some kind of serious misinterpretation here.

[pipestone1991]

Pipestone1991,

Dude, you've gotta get specific. I can find no reference to anything related to "The BSA is now selling a military dress medal for military uniforms. Only Eagle Scouts can purchase it." I think this is some kind of serious misinterpretation here.

NESA Fall 2006 Will look it up.

[pipestone1991]

Well, I just don't know now. If you type in on BSA's site, "eagle military medal" it comes up with a thing that says "This beta page was destroyed". NESA definetly said they would do this in the Fall '06 mag, but I can't find anything (other than wikipedia, which cites the same source I used).

[RWSmith]

Well,

I just looked it up in the Fall '06 NESA "Eagletter"; and, just as you said, it's in there. The announcement says:

"This fall, the national Supply Division and National Eagle Scout Association will offer a replica Eagle Scout medal designed specifically for wear with U.S. military dress uniforms. The special medal was designed in response to military personnel’s requests to have an Eagle insignia that was proportionate to other military medals. The new medals are restricted for purchase by Eagle Scouts and are available only at Scout shops and council trading posts."

However, as I said before, the DoD is not about to let the Eagle Medal go on any military uniform, Mess Dress, or otherwise. If I ever read to the contrary, in a DoD Reg., I'll be stunned -- to say the least.

OTOH, those in the military and veterans are encouraged to wear their military medals while in appropriate civilian attire on certain occasions, I.e., Specific holidays, such as Memorial Day and Veterans Day, or other certain occasions, e.g., military funerals. And, in such cases, IMHO, their's absoloutely nothing wrong with wearing your Eagle Medal and your Military ones, too... But, again, only under these circumstances.

At any rate, I'm curious about it, now... and will keep digging. (Even with NESA's announcement, I still think there's been a misunderstanding about wearing it on the military uniforms.)

Edit: See Paul's post below for the details!!!

[Hubert]

I would like this very much, for I am going into the military this fall. I have enlisted into the United States Marine Corps. I am proud of my decision and making Eagle gets a promotion. Being able to wear this medal would be amazing.

[pipestone1991]

I would like this very much, for I am going into the military this fall. I have enlisted into the United States Marine Corps. I am proud of my decision and making Eagle gets a promotion. Being able to wear this medal would be amazing.

You did? Wow Hub, that's deep. I've considered enlisting in the USMC myself Good luck!!!! RW please tell me what comes of this!

[mt_goodrich]

Justin....if you were near by I would come by to shake your hand. Thank you for the path you have chosen and thank you for your impending service to our country.

You, and everyone else in the military or considering joining have my utmost respect and prayers.

[spl08]

Thank you for the update! However, I'm wondering a little myself about this now. It'll be intersting to see what you come up with RW.

Oh and thank for your future service Hubert! Mind saying what you'll be doing (job wise)?

[Hubert]

For starters, I will be infantry, a rifleman. However, when I get a degree and some time in, I plan on getting a medical career. I am doing this to help pay for college, rather expensive now-a-days. Plus I wish to help give back to those who helped me. I can protect them and defend what we have. I will more than likely have to switch branches, but if that is what it takes, then I will do it!

I have to say, thank you for the support! There have been many people who have torn me pice by peice due to my choice. They say its the wrong branch. However, I still stand proud by my choice! I always ask them, what is in front of every branch? The United States, so we all have the same duty, to help protect the United States. So no matter what branch one goes into, they still all work tgether for the same cause.

Thank you everyone!

[PaulSWolf]

I wrote to LTC Mike Walton, (known to many on-line Scouts and Scouters as "Settummanque, the blackeagle") and asked him to look at this thread, and comment. Mike, is an active duty Army Reserve Officer, recently back from Iraq, and a former Paraprofessional BSA employee, and a long time Scouter. Here's his reply. (Note the first part in particular, that the NESA has stopped selling that miniature medal.):

I was asked:

"Do you know the rules, if any, that allow the Eagle Scout medal to be worn on active duty US military uniforms? I have been told there are such allowances, but have not been able to find such regulations."

I have several responses for you...all of it comes down to a phrase: only during Eagle ceremonies.

Here are those responses:

===============================

The National Eagle Scout Association DOES sell a miniature Eagle Scout medal.

[Mike Walton note: NO, THEY DO NOT ANYMORE, SINCE DECEMBER OF 2007. The National Eagle Scout Association stopped selling the mini-medal after service uniforming committees all contacted the BSA and asked them to stop promoting the medal for wear on military dress uniforms. This is the reason why that particular page on the NESA site has been blocked. ]

However, ALL of the services as well as the Army and Air Force ROTC programs, DO NOT ALLOW the wearing of the Eagle Scout medal on military uniforms. The reason why the military doesn't allow the Eagle Scout Award medal (full sized or mini) to be worn offiically is because their uniform boards don't recognize the Eagle Scout Award as a "civilian" or "agency" award. They do permit the presentation of the Eagle Scout Award and the Distinguished Eagle Scout Award medallion while in military uniforms -- so, for instance, a new Soldier who was not awarded their Eagle Scout award before enlisting or commissioning can do so....and those senior officers and enlisted military members who have received the DESA can wear it on the day of the presentation.

But that's it.

As far as something to wear instead of the Eagle Scout award, some Scouters have worn their Eagle Award suspended from a red, white and blue necklace ribbon. It's NOT official and NOT authorized by the military, and there's bound to be some Sergeant Major or Senior Master Sergeant or Senior Chief Petty Officer to come and find you and make you take it off!!

Hope that helps...sorry that the answer can't be more positive. The NESA jumped the gun because they expected the Army's uniform policy board to (finally) approve a special ribbon to be worn by holders of the Eagle and several other youth serving organization programs...but the board didn't approve it. So they started production on something which CAN be worn with civilian suits and tuxes but CAN NOT be worn with military awards!!!

===================================

"I was wondering if you could give a quick answer that has come up lately.
Our troop recently have had several Eagle scouts move on into the
military and some of them have asked if they are able to wear the
Eagle medal on their military uniform for scouting functions."

Like....Courts of Honor? Nope. The uniform for Courts of Honor is the Scouting uniform or civilian clothing. When I attend Scouting functions in my military uniform, I don't wear anything which relates to my Scouting role. I can't -- it's against military policy and Army uniform regulations.

Troop meetings? The same thing applies here...

There ARE TWO exceptions. One of them ONLY applies during the National Scout Jamboree. The military's First U.S. Army's Jamboree Task Force has permission from the Secretary of the Army to allow special cards to be attached to the military uniforms of Scouters participating in the Jamboree. These cards have a color illustrated Eagle Scout Medal, Wood Badge beads, Silver Beaver or Distinguished Eagle Scout Award on the laminated card. Those holders of those awards may wear the cards during the Jamboree only....after the Jamboree is over, the cards are taken off the uniform and retained by the holder.

The other exception ONLY applies to the AWARD of the Eagle or Distinguished Eagle Awards to military members. The Eagle medal or the Distinguished Eagle Award may be presented to a member of the military and they may wear the medal or medallion during the ceremony only. After the ceremony, the medal or medallion is removed from the uniform. There is NO ribbon or device in ANY service which denotes the attainment of Eagle or the First Class Girl Scout Award.

"I have relayed the Unofficial information from your site to them but was
wondering if there was an official ruling on this."

Yes, but it's not a BSA "ruling" but rather military policy. All of the services do not allow the Eagle or other insignia to be worn with the uniform except when being awarded the award during a ceremony. After the ceremony or presentation, the award is removed from the uniform and is not worn again. They should be familiar with the contents within Army Regulation 670-1, National Guard Bureau (NGB) Regulation 670-1 and/or Joint Publication 1 - 1, Joint Uniform Policy.

=================================

"I am in Indiana, my son is a Scout. We have an ASM who insists he is authorized to wear his military branch insignia on his left pocket flap (the council says I can)"

No. Unless the Council's Scout Executive stated this IN WRITING (and I doubt very much if that happened)... no.

The BSA has a firm policy that NO military insignia of ANY KIND is to be worn with the official uniforms of the movement. This is found in the BSA's Rules and Regulations under the Uniforming policies and it DOES take the Scout Executive's signature on a piece of paper authorizing it.

"I insist that Military Regulation AR 670-1 over rules the council and does not authorize the wear of military awards, decorations and insignia by any one other than active duty service members (except of course veterans attending a military type function)"

Army Regulation 670-1 only applies to Army members (and retirees, reserve component members, and those of other services who wear Army-awarded insignia or devices).

If this guy is in the Army, I can certainly remind him of his obligation to wear those insignia only on his Army uniform. When he wears the Scout uniform, he is a member of the BSA; when we wear the uniform of a Soldier, we wear the appropriate insignia of the Soldier.

"I can not find a documented answer to support my claim - other than AR 670-1 and the ASM doesn't want to believe that - after all he is very proud of his 4 years of honorable service."

For references:

"Clause 11 (this is referenced to the BSA's Rules and Regulations, Article X Section 4): Local Councils are authorized to adopt special badges and insignia as awards for particular purposes in harmony with national policies and to permit their use upon the official uniform in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Corporation (the BSA), but such awards must be approved as to purpose and design by the Corporation in advance.

The BSA's National Insignia and Uniform Committee granted local Council Scout Executives permission to design/adopt/use special local Council insignia items as long as they fax a copy of the design to the BSA National Office in advance of its usage and follow it up with three copies of the actual patch, knot, device, emblem, etc. That same committee also authorized local Council Scout Executives to approve Post, Ship, and Team insignia without having to send it to the BSA National Office and as long as one or more of the BSA's "indicia". "

Here's the sentence from the BSA's Scout Executive Manual, which his Scout Executive has (and you can tell him that if he doesn't "believe this", he can look it up himself....)

p. 22-17, third paragraph

"Many present or former military members frequently want to wear their military rank or wear insignia representing their military service and leadership. This is not permitted by the BSA's federal charter. Former or present members of the military, to include guard and reserve members, may not wear rank, branch, or award insignia with the official BSA uniforms at any time. Additionally, Scouts, Venturers or Scouters can not "take on" or "use" military titles in connection with their Scouting activities. Wearing such insignia or titles provides confusion between youth/adult members and the actual program execution. Scout Executives will provide alternative solutions for those volunteers who insist on wearing military-related insignia with the official uniforms which does not involve the wearing of insignia or medals with the uniform. However, it is appropriate that those veterans and present members, if they choose to do so, to be recognized using their military rank or grade ("Captain Smith", "Sergeant Jones, "Chief Patterson", "Gunny Dixon") in formal BSA award certification or public recognition. "

===============================

"I understand that a Sea Scout Officer can wear his earned military
ribbons and some types of devises on their dress uniform. Is this true?
It it is true, what are the limitations?"

This USED to be the case until 1987. The BSA has since said "no military insignia or ribbons will be worn with the field uniforms" (to include Sea Scouting/Exploring uniforms).

Also, can a Coast Guardsman who is a Sea Scout Leader wear his earned Boat Cox'n breast insignia on his uniform? The Sea Scout manual says that a unit can wear the appropriate navy style or Coast Guard uniform with appropriate Sea Scouts BSA over pocket strip; Why can you get Sea Scout rank etc. patches with the "Coast Guard Blue" fabric background? It seems there is a mix up if the Sea Scouts are allowed to use the uniform if there is no support for insignia?"

The blue jumper for Coast Guardsmen is not a valid Sea Scouting field uniform. Only those uniforms -- the blue dress and the white utilties -- are authorized to be worn by Sea Explorers/Scouts. In any case, the "Sea Scouting - BSA" strip or the old "Sea Explorers BSA" strip are the only two strips allowed to be worn with Sea Scouting/Sea Exploring insignia. The "Boy Scouts of America" strip in white or blue is also permitted, but the National Sea Scouting subcommittee waved off those strips in favor of the "Sea Scouting - BSA" strip, which explains clearly the role of that individual wearing what "looks like" a naval uniform.

======================================

Hope all of this information gives you more than just a simple "no, you can't" and explains in more detail the reasons why.
Thanks for asking and thank you for your patience.

Mike Walton
Settummanque, the blackeagle

[RWSmith]

Thanks, Paul. (Also, thanks to Settummanque for the details. ) Now then... With that being said, let's close this discussion.