Two boys - one Board of Review

[pipestone1991]

We've only done a group BoR for the those new boys going for the Scout badge (joining rank). It's not official, since it's not required, and we let the boys know that. We just introduce the boys and committee members, explain to them what our jobs in the troop are and what future BoR will be like. We ask them what they like/don't like about Scouting ( or WEBELOS), Quickly re-inforce the YP rules etc.

Like I said, it's not official or required. It's very informal and basically call it an "Introductory Board of Review"

I could see this as Scout isn't a rank. As for the others, idk.

[joat]

What are the "YP rules" a new Scout should know?

[pipestone1991]

What are the "YP rules" a new Scout should know?

Anything in the booklet that comes with the handbook.

[owl scouter]

The paragraph below is right out of the Boy Scouts of Americal National Council web site under Scouting. It says Scout, not Scouts. Nothing like getting it from the source.

"A board of review should be held where the board members and the Scout are the only ones aware of what is going on. There should be no possibility for embarrassing the Scout in front of others. And a Scout should be comfortable speaking his mind to the board."

John

[DadScout]

What are the "YP rules" a new Scout should know?

Youth Protection. We quickly go over never 1:1 adult:youth, no hazing, etc. The SM would have already done this and it's in the first pages of the handbook, but we reinforce it since our Youth Protection meeting is normally in the Spring and the boys cross in Feb.

And yes this group BoR is only done at the Scout rank, never TF and above. It's just a way of letting them all know what the BoR will be in the future.

[joat]

As I understand it, youth protection rules apply to adult leaders. I'm not sure what rules a SM would tell new Scouts they must obey. The detachable booklet in the front of the Handbook is a parent's guide. The parent discusses this with his child. It talks about the 3 R's and when the Scout should report to an adult. There are no rules he must follow. There's no YP rules in the Handbook either.

I'm really curious about the "Youth Protection" meeting that was mentioned. I've never heard of that and never seen anything about it in the literature. What do you do at this meeting? Are you referring to "A Time to Tell"?

[Quailman]

I know that there is never supposed to be one-on-one situations. When i read the above posts, I figured he meant that they told the boys this also. While I try to always be careful, it wouldn't hurt if the boys were conscious of it also.

I mentioned to my 17 year old son that I was going to bring up the troop situation to the district, and he told me that he saw twofer BoRs a year ago. I thought this was the first time, but apparently not. Before I knew better, I was drafted to be part of a BoR. I am a registered ASM in the troop. Since I learned of the rules I refuse to be on a board. I am still occasionally asked, though.

[evmori]

What are the "YP rules" a new Scout should know?

Youth Protection. We quickly go over never 1:1 adult:youth, no hazing, etc. The SM would have already done this and it's in the first pages of the handbook, but we reinforce it since our Youth Protection meeting is normally in the Spring and the boys cross in Feb.

And yes this group BoR is only done at the Scout rank, never TF and above. It's just a way of letting them all know what the BoR will be in the future.

Boy Scout isn't a rank and a BOR isn't required. A Scoutmaster Conference is and this should be done with only one Scout at a time.

[DadScout]

As I understand it, youth protection rules apply to adult leaders. I'm not sure what rules a SM would tell new Scouts they must obey. The detachable booklet in the front of the Handbook is a parent's guide. The parent discusses this with his child. It talks about the 3 R's and when the Scout should report to an adult. There are no rules he must follow. There's no YP rules in the Handbook either.

Right, I never said we told the youth the YP rules they must follow I said we explain the rules. Look at it this way - What good is it to tell an adult that he can't have 1:1 contact if he's a person that's dangerous to a youth. We also tell the youth there's no 1:1 contact so he knows it's not allowed to happen and should not be in that situation.

I'm really curious about the "Youth Protection" meeting that was mentioned.

It is the video "A time to tell". We do it once a year and the youth and one parent must be present. After the video we discuss the various Youth Protection rules that the BSA has and answer any questions regarding it.

Boy Scout isn't a rank and a BOR isn't required. A Scoutmaster Conference is and this should be done with only one Scout at a time.

My apologies for stating rank, but I'm sure you know what I mean right? I never said the BOR was required and in fact in an earlier posting stated

it's not official or required. It's very informal and basically call it an "Introductory Board of Review"

We're not adding requirements, just letting them know what the process will be like moving forward.

[Fibonacci]

DadScout ~ I really like your idea for an Advancement & YP conversation (not really a group BoR) with Scouts who have just finished Scout badge. (Yes, sometimes I also misspeak and call it "Scout Rank" but I'm trying to get myself to say & write Scout badge.) We have quite a few new Scouts and perhaps even their parents who could benefit from just such a conversation. Thank you.

[joat]

We also tell the youth there's no 1:1 contact so he knows it's not allowed to happen and should not be in that situation.

That is one of the tactics of a child molester: blame the kid for the molestation. It's not the kid's fault if he gets into 1:1 with a molester. I'd be afraid a boy would decline to come forward if he thinks he violated the 1:1 rule and is going to get yelled at.

You're right that child molesters don't follow YP rules. The rules are there so the non-molesters don't unwittingly use techniques that a molester would. If everyone does 1:1 contact, the molester just blends in. The rule, if followed by everyone else, ensures the molester stands out.

There is a Meeting Guide supplement to the video A Time to Tell that is useful:
http://www.scouting.org/YouthProtection ... otell.aspx

[DadScout]

That is one of the tactics of a child molester: blame the kid for the molestation. It's not the kid's fault if he gets into 1:1 with a molester. I'd be afraid a boy would decline to come forward if he thinks he violated the 1:1 rule and is going to get yelled at.

Joat, let me correct the context here. First off neither I or anyone I personally know in Scouting would blame a child for anything like that. We let the youth know the rules that the adults must follow and why. We make it extreamly clear to the boys that adults are to blame for those situations and that if it happens they need to report it to a parent or trusted adult. Our policy has been that Youth Protection only works if every knows whats expected.

The rules are there so the non-molesters don't unwittingly use techniques that a molester would.

As far as I'm concerned the rules are there to protect the youth - first and formost. There are other reasons, notably to protect the honest adult from being put in a position that could be perceived as inappropriate.

And yes we already follow the guide that goes with the film.

[smtroop168]

Once again it appears we have gotten off the topic of the original post.

More than 1 scout at a BOR is incorrect and the original poster is looking into contacting the appropriate people in the District to address the situation.

[Quailman]

Here's the letter I've drafted. I shared it with a committee member who will support me.

I have trepidations about contacting you, but I believe the situation in my sons’ troop needs review by someone who can offer suggestions for improvement.

I’m sure that in every troop there are occasions that make it appear that the focus is more on pushing scouts through the ranks than offering a good program. Last week we had quite a few Boards of Review scheduled. Most were for scouts who crossed over in February, and this was their first experience in a Board of Review. In order to get them all done that evening so that we could rank them up at last Monday’s court of honor, they were conducted for two boys at a time. The Scoutmaster had told one committee member that they only had to be two minutes long anyway.

Conducting Boards of Review for two boys at once minimizes the importance of them. What if one boy has a serious problem with the other or just wants to say something that he doesn’t want the other one to hear. I am not suggesting that these BoRs be redone, but I’d like to see that twofers do not happen again.

The whole program could use review. We are losing older boys who are getting frustrated. Leadership skills are not emphasized at all. Although I have heard the scoutmaster call it a boy-led troop, older boys do not have an opportunity to really plan and lead activities. A case in point is the first campout after the new scouts crossed over in February. It was planned by the scoutmaster, with some other leaders teaching Tenderfoot skills. When I asked “What about the older boys?” they were told they could attend if they wanted.

I know our scoutmaster means well, but he has about ten years experience as a cubmaster, and is a commissioner for packs in our district. I just think the scouts are getting short-changed by not benefitting from the leadership opportunities they should be getting.

Our Committee Chair has just resigned due to an impending relocation and his replacement has only recently moved up to boy scouts from a cub pack. I am asking for help in resurrecting our program for the sake of the boys. Perhaps an experienced scouter could attend our Monday meetings and offer guidance for improving the program.

[smtroop168]

Quailman..this letter is going to whom? IMHO, I would be more direct in saying the multiple scout BORs is in violation of BSA policy. You do not have to redo the BORs however as in an earlier ruling that I was involved with at our Council, National determined that basically "a card laid was a card played" and you cannot penalize the scout for the erroneous actions of the adults.

Also add that you would be willing to coordinate a training session for all adults in the troop to better understand the program. If you have that many new guys it would be time well spent and maybe get you some new help.

[DadScout]

Your letter certainly shows the depth that you care about the program in the Troop. Getting some consensus from other parents/committee members is good. But what do you really think will fix it? It looks like a SM that still thinks like a CM, a CC that's leaving and being replaced by a parent moving up, and older boys that are bored. smtroop168 is right, training is one thing thats needed, especially for the new parents.

[Quailman]

You originally asked what the District Advancement Committee had to say about this, but you raise a good question. To whom should I adress it?

Here's the list for our district. Our SM is listed under Commissioners. There is a Klein Troops ADC, which would cover us. There's also a District Commissioner, a District Director and District Executive. Any of these?

Training is important, but our SM has been involved for many years. IMO his primary goal is to get all his sons to Eagle. He's been with our troop since its founding in 2002 or 2003. He became SM last year, though he's run it as an ASM the whole time. I don't know if further training will help him.

I edited the letter to say this:

Conducting Boards of Review for two boys at once minimizes the importance of them and is in direct violation of Boy Scout Policy.

[DadScout]

I believe the normal answer would be bring it up to the unit AC, then the unit CC, then the unit COR, then the unit commish.....and then the Dist person for your issue. In this case it would be the Dist Advancement Chair (your list shows as "boy scout advancement"). Many times some of those positions are on paper only for some units. You might substitue your Klien ADC for UC

Like it's been said the BOR is done and stands, you can't change that. Do you want to get everyone's knickers in a twist over this one issue that may or may not happen again. Or really do you want to effect change in the whole program. The BOR is the responsibility of the units AC, start there to make sure this one thing doesn't happen again. Then see if you can train the adults. Maybe the SM is too far gone, I hope not. But certainly the rest should get trained know what the program should be like. Maybe even visit another troop you know is boy run (some of the veteran Scouters can comment on the wisdom of that or not). I do know that our troop took a turn to being more boy run when the boys saw another troop. We didn't stop it from being boy run we just had motivation issues and too much fell to the adults.

I personally don't like barking outside my unit until I've fully exausted everything inside the unit.

[Quailman]

Do you want to get everyone's knickers in a twist over this one issue that may or may not happen again. Or really do you want to effect change in the whole program.

My oldest son told me that he had seen it going on last year, so it's not one issue.

]The BOR is the responsibility of the units AC, start there to make sure this one thing doesn't happen again.

The unit AC is the SM's wife. She never attends meetings.

]I personally don't like barking outside my unit until I've fully exausted everything inside the unit.

Neither do I, but any time I've suggested anything - an activity, a camping destination, a fundraiser idea - the SM is there to shoot it down. Or he'll tell me that he'll think about it and it never comes up again.

[evmori]

We also tell the youth there's no 1:1 contact so he knows it's not allowed to happen and should not be in that situation.

That is one of the tactics of a child molester: blame the kid for the molestation. It's not the kid's fault if he gets into 1:1 with a molester. I'd be afraid a boy would decline to come forward if he thinks he violated the 1:1 rule and is going to get yelled at.

You're right that child molesters don't follow YP rules. The rules are there so the non-molesters don't unwittingly use techniques that a molester would. If everyone does 1:1 contact, the molester just blends in. The rule, if followed by everyone else, ensures the molester stands out.

There is a Meeting Guide supplement to the video A Time to Tell that is useful:
http://www.scouting.org/YouthProtection ... otell.aspx

Child molesters might not follow the YP rules but I'd bet ya your paycheck they know them better than we do! And they know how to use them for their benefit!