EBOR Delay

[aflmom]

I don't suppose this should be a surprise, but our son just received a phone call that his EBOR has been delayed. They don't have any reference letters for him. On the application he provided names, addresses, and phone numbers but was told that he should have contacted the people and asked for letters.

If I recall correctly, this has come up in previous threads and requiring a scout to do so was an added requirement.

He never did get anyone lines up to be there with him. One of the people on the EBOR is a former SM which I understand technically isn't suppose to be sitting in on the BOR.

Again, I'll be so glad when this whole thing is over with. The celebration won't be because of his eagle but because he's done.

[Fibonacci]

Sorry to hear about the delay.

My understanding is that the current SM is not allowed to speak during the EBOR, but any other unrelated person can participate. So a former SM would be allowed.

Our troop also asks the Scout to get the letters of reference sent to the District Eagle rep. I'm interested to read what the rules really are.

[Mrw]

Our council also expects the letters with the paperwork. But if he were here, he would have been notified by Council within a day of submitting the paperwork and application that he needed that.

[t305spl]

Aflmom, I am sorry to hear this!

They should not have scheduled a EBOR if they didn't have all the necessary documents. In our council, all you do is submit the Names, Addresses, and Phone Numbers and the District sends letters to them and a questionnaire.

What you have gone through is horrible. Some people need to know about this. Please make sure you stay on top of them to make sure once he has the letters in they schedule it ASAP, I know you will.

This treatment may even need to be dealt with on the National level.

Again, I am sorry they are still playing games with you and your son.

[wagionvigil]

Why does this not surprise me?

[scoutaholic]

I don't suppose this should be a surprise, but our son just received a phone call that his EBOR has been delayed. They don't have any reference letters for him. On the application he provided names, addresses, and phone numbers but was told that he should have contacted the people and asked for letters. ...

In our council, I've never seen an actual letter of recommendation. The name/address/phone on the Eagle application is good enough. Nobody ever questions them. There is no attempt to actually contact or get recommendations from the people named.

I've seen our council Advancement person do her 30-second check of an Eagle application. She glanced over it, and made sure every line had something filled in. That was it. Stamped it, and sent it to the District Advancement guy to arrange a BOR.

[evmori]

This happens too often. The requirement is to supply names of people who would give you a reference, not to actually get the reference. Sounds like the Advancement Committee wants someone to do their job for them.

Did they ask your son to get the references for them or did they just assume he would?

Quick related story.

When I was a SM, I took one of my Life Scouts for his EBOR. All his paperwork was in order but the Advancement Chair (AC) (who I know very well) never asked him or anyone in our unit to get the reference letters. We were waiting in the church hallway & the AC came out & asked where the letters were. I asked my Scout if anyone asked him to get them & he said no. The AC stated "These are required" to which I stated, "No they are not. The requirement is to supply the names. There is no requirement anyone write any reference letters. The references can be phone calls, personal conversations, e-mail, etc. but letters are not required." She walked away in a huff. The EBOR convened & my Scout passed with flying colors. The AC stated at the end they would turn in the paper work after they got the references which the committee would handle. He received his Eagle shortly after.

[ASM-142]

I don't suppose this should be a surprise, but our son just received a phone call that his EBOR has been delayed. They don't have any reference letters for him. On the application he provided names, addresses, and phone numbers but was told that he should have contacted the people and asked for letters.

Here they go adding to the requirements again!

[Nuts4Scouts]

From - The 12 Steps From Life to Eagle - on the last page of the ES Leadership Service Workbook - Step # 6 -

When the completed application is received at the council service center, its contents will be verified and the references contacted. The Scout shall have listed six references (five if no employer, and parent if no organized religious association). The council advancement committee or its designee contacts the references on the Eagle Scout Rank Application by letter, form, or telephone checklist. (The council determines the method or methods to be used.) The candidate should have contacted those individuals listed as references before including their names on the application. If desired by the council, the candidate may be asked to deliver a blank reference form and envelopes to the listed references. The candidates should not be involved personally in transmitting any correspondence between persons listed as references and the council service center or advancement committee. If the initial reference letter or form is not returned to the council in a timely manner, the council advancement committee must make direct contact with the reference(s) listed on the Eagle Scout Rank Application on its own, by follow-up letter, phone contact, or other methods as it chooses. The candidate shall not be required to make a follow-up contact with the reference or submit other reference names. A Scout cannot have a board of review denied or postponed because the council office or council advancement committee does not receive the reference letter forms he delivered.

Pay close attention to the parts I have highlighted and underlined. Please note especially the final sentence I have underlined.

[wagionvigil]

Call your Council Exec NOW! Tell him you are filing a complaint against the advancement committee chairman and will push it as far as it has to go to keep this person/persons from hurting scouts. If you have to call the national service center so be it!

[t305spl]

I would just let the Council Exec. know you are filing a complaint with National. Aflmom, you have already played the council's game...go to National.

Let him know you are filing a complaint at the National Service Center at 4:30pm today if you do not receive a date and time for an EBOR to be held within the next week and a half.

Inform him this complaint will be filed against Advancement Committee Chairman all the way up to the Council Exec. They are responsible for correcting any wrongs...and since they haven't they are listed as well.

Get on the phone with the Council Exec. now...you do not deserve to be put through this nonsense any longer.

[smtroop168]

An extremely unfortunate situation for you. You have been forced into drastic actions so move out smartly and bring the hammer down. I can't believe the CE would put up with this.

I have heard/seen different councils do the references different ways. All we ask is that the scout fill out his application with the names. He is of course asked if he has asked those people if they would be willing to give a reference so they aren't surprised when form comes in the mail. It's up to our AC to take it from there. We have ocassionally held BORs without getting all the letters returned but that's not the scout's fault. I've also never seen a LOR keep a scout from passing his EBOR although some of the letters have been lukewarm. I think it's more of the form than the person filling out the form.

Best of luck!

[evmori]

The sad part is the CE might not know this is going on!

[smtroop168]

Touche!

[t305spl]

Aflmom said that at the end of March she called the CE and left a message. If he doesn't know what's happening in his council maybe he needs to be replaced.

It seems like a few people need some disciplinary action taken against them. The actions of individuals in your council is appalling...

[smtroop168]

I think he meant knowledge of the most recent fiasco.

[jr56]

As stated previously, contact your CE immediatley. Explain everything that has happened. Tell him that if your son does not have his EBOR secheduled in a timely manner, you will be contacting National. You will win.

[aflmom]

His EBOR has been rescheduled for next Wed at 7pm.

I spoke with his scoutmaster, who had also done some checking, and saw the policy (step 6) that Nuts4Scouts shared. His SM is also fed up with the whole situation. According to the SM, the EBOR WILL be held that day, period, the end. He knows some people that he can get on short notice to sit in on it.

It's not like this is the only thing going on in our lives. I'm going around with the Florida Bright Futures Program re: a scholarship and the university that has accepted him still hasn't made a decision if he can live on campus. However, he's now looking at deferring admission until next fall. Plus I'm trying to plan a vacation to D.C.--our first trip there!

An exhausted mom who's done whining (for now).

[evmori]

Not a problem! And you weren't whining! You just wanted what your boy deserves!

[jr56]

You are not whining. What is right is right, and you and your son deserve it. I hope this long, disgusting scenario of volunteers, and professionals?, not doing the job right, comes to a successful conclusion soon.