Wow....We Really Dropped the Ball

[mt_goodrich]

As you all may remember, I just became Scoutmaster of our troop this past week. I am in Greensboro, NC this week for work, so I haven't even been home yet.

However, before I left, I had gone by the council office and had them give me a print out on each boy in the troop and what they have on record for them.

I am ashamed to say that the SM and the rest of the adult leadership of the troop have not been doing a good job tracking the advancement of the boys in the troop. That is to include myself.

I have been an Asst. SM for almost two years with this troop; however, I had been concentrating a lot of district and council projects.

I am currently entering data into Troop Master and realize we have three boy just two requirements away from earning First Class and one boy who has completed all the requirements for Star Scout, but needs a SM conference and a BOR.

I was stupid to assume this was all being done. Fortunately, no serious damage has occurred to prevent these young men to achieve Eagle, if that is their goal. We have had an active program, but advancement tracking didn't seem to be something that anyone had taken the time to do.

I plan on meeting with each of these young men when I get back and apologize to them. Also, recommit myself as an adult leader of this troop to do the best I can.

Another good thing is that we have an all new troop committee that I feel is committed to doing what is best for the boys. We need to be sure everyone gets trained in their positions so everyone knows their roles.

[scouter01]

They have known about it the whole time.... In our troop, we have to actually ask for BOR. If they aren't motivated then I don't think forced motivation is the best idea

[evmori]

Yeah maybe you guys did let some stuff slip by. But remember, you aren't the one completing the requirements for rank. The Scouts are. It is their advancement, not yours. Those Scouts who are that close to the next rank should be coming to the adults requesting to complete what they need to advance.

Don't beat yourself up! Start fresh!

[smtroop168]

I had the same situation when I took over my troop. Have the boys bring in their books and do a match with Troopmaster. This is will give you the data on where they current stand on next rank. I found all kinds of mismatches. The council records should be a match with retained advancement reports (if you have them). Once you're ready, go on internet advancement and do an update.

Shouldn't this topic be moved to General Advancement vice Eagle Scout?

I agree with the statement that Advancement is the scout's responsibility especially when they are 1st class and above.

[pipestone1991]

I have to agree with scouter01. Boy Scouts should be learning to be self-sufficient at that age (11-13). It should not be your problem to deal with if your scouts need a BOR. They should know that and request it. It teaches these younger scouts to be more self-relient. If they can research and tell their parents what they want for Christmas, why can't they tdell you (as SM) when they need a BOR?

[mt_goodrich]

I did put this in the wrong spot...sorry. If someone could move it, I'd appreciate it greatly.

[9009scoutmaster]

We just had a BOR this past Tuesday. One youth for Star had met the requirements 8-9 months ago. Every few months I would ask him when would he be ready for his next advancement. He advanced when he was ready. During his SM conference I informed him that he should be ready for Life by the first of Dec. He only needs one more Eagle required MB for Life.

[deweylure]

I must disagree with its the scouts job to remind leaders about BOR and SM conference. Ny experience has been a Troop where the SM had no clue and very poor recording skills. We installed TroopMaster and then cross checked books . MANY times the book was not signed and dated only signed. We found some were not advancing . further diagnosis pointed to the SM. He is out and a new one in.

Now we have regular advancement and keep track on printouts from Troopmaster. We conduct BOR when all the requirements are met and the conference is complete.


Deweylure

[Mrw]

Advancement tracking is important to follow and help the kids who need some encouragement and to learn to be more organized.

That being said, the boys should know what they need. And the one who was ready for Star on paper should definitely be asking for the SMC and BOR rather than waiting for someone to do it for him.

[Chief J]

I want to add, that while I think the world of Troopmaster, itis not the official scouting record.

I was surpirsed when we went to internet rechartering, and had access to the Scoutnet records (which are the official scouting records), the number of errors. wrong dates, missing dates, etc.

We were able to get all of that corrected for the youth and have not had any negative impact.

Chief J

[evmori]

I must disagree with its the scouts job to remind leaders about BOR and SM conference. Ny experience has been a Troop where the SM had no clue and very poor recording skills. We installed TroopMaster and then cross checked books . MANY times the book was not signed and dated only signed. We found some were not advancing . further diagnosis pointed to the SM. He is out and a new one in.

Now we have regular advancement and keep track on printouts from Troopmaster. We conduct BOR when all the requirements are met and the conference is complete.


Deweylure

It's the Scout's advancement, not the adults! The adults get their paycheck regardless how many Scouts advance!

[milominderbinder2]

I think that one of the most important things you did was to get the ScoutNet printouts from the Council.

As others have said, it does not matter what your records show, only what ScoutNet shows.

Every registrar has horror stories of Eagle Scout Applicants turning in paperwork only to find that they never bridged because the Arrow of light was never turned in or that they do not have Advancement Reports for certain merit badges or for Life.

There are still councils who will sell rank and merit badge patches without Advancement Reports so people buy them and put them on. But without the advancement report they have no right to wear the patches.

Some units just refuse to turn in their monthly advancement reports. How does that help the boys?

Other units only do boards of review for Scouts who are advancing, robbing the other Scouts.

The Boy Scout program is so good. I wish more leaders would give it a try.

To see more about these topics, here is the key text from the Advancement Policies #33088.

- Craig

[scoutaholic]

Every registrar has horror stories of Eagle Scout Applicants turning in paperwork only to find that they never bridged because the Arrow of light was never turned in or that they do not have Advancement Reports for certain merit badges or for Life.

Not our registrar. They have no idea if the council records match the Eagle application. I watched the 15 second approval process, and it did not involve checking any council records.

There are still councils who will sell rank and merit badge patches without Advancement Reports so people buy them and put them on. But without the advancement report they have no right to wear the patches.

It is true that one should not wear badges they didn't earn, but there are plenty of other reasons for buying badges that may not exactly match an advancement report.

Some units just refuse to turn in their monthly advancement reports. How does that help the boys?

Monthly? When did Who ask for them on a monthly basis?

[AquilaNegra2]

We use Scoutnet. I enter the data as the Scout earns each rank or merit badge. Then have an update and report generated whenever there is a Court of Honor. It's never monthly for us .

Our local council won't let us buy even a replacement badge without the report. The next council over (closer to me, anyway) doesn't care. Initially, they asked for ID, but have gotten to know me and don't bother any more. Sometimes boys (or their parents) lose badges, a badge gets torn up in the wash, the wrong badge was purchased, we can't find a pin, etc. Guess which council gets our $?

I think that if a parent is responsible enough for the troop to trust them with advancement and merit badge records, they're responsible enough to pick out the ones they need.

[milominderbinder2]

Not our registrar. They have no idea if the council records match the Eagle application. I watched the 15 second approval process, and it did not involve checking any council records.

When your registrar does the validation for an Eagle Application, ScoutNet verifies that the local council records show the correct merit badges have been earned, sufficient time since Life, previous ranks, current registration, etc. ScoutNet quickly shows whether it validates the local council information.

It actually goes farther than this. Even, when a Scout moves to a new council, the new council is not allowed to access the former council's ScoutNet records. A ScoutNet printout from the old council can be faxed to the new council but everything must be re-entered or it will not show up in the new council's ScoutNet.

Ask your registrar, the ScoutNet Eagle Application validation process approval involves checking local council records.

It is true that one should not wear badges they didn't earn, but there are plenty of other reasons for buying badges that may not exactly match an advancement report.

I understand that there are adults who have plenty of reasons for encouraging Scouts to break BSA policies. We can make them recite words every meeting like "A Scout is Trustworthy..." but if our example is to teach reasons to break the rules, the Scouts are going to follow our example, not our words. The BSA says that in this case you "will jeopardize individual youth members' record of achievement." Here is the quote from your 33088.

"Badges of rank, merit badges, and Eagle Palms are restricted items. These items may not be sold or distributed unless the Advancement Report, No. 34403B, has been properly filled out and has been submitted to the local council office. To do otherwise will jeopardize individual youth members' record of achievement."

Some units just refuse to turn in their monthly . How does that help the boys?

Monthly? When did Who ask for them [advancement reports] on a monthly basis?[/quote]
The BSA has asked for advancement reports at least monthly for as long as I can find records. See page 26 of your 33088.

[Fibonacci]

https://scoutnet.scouting.org/iadv/Help/FAQ/tips.htm
How often must I submit an Advancement Report to the council?

You set the schedule. Internet Advancement will permit you to submit advancement as often as needed. It's recommended that you submit at least once per month and before the end of each month. You may time your submittal, however, to when you will need the advancement awards for presentation to your members. In the month of December, you are asked to submit all unit advancements not yet recorded before month end so that council statistics will be complete for that year.

I'm in the Council AquilaNegra2 mentioned as not requiring advancement paperwork to purchase items. Our SM was out of town for a week so I could not get a signature from him for our latest purchases, but even if I had given the staff a signed form, I would have been allowed to purchase any items. They don't look at the paperwork as a shopping list, they just set it on the counter behind them. I prefer being treated as a trustworthy Boy Scout customer.

It's interesting to read the answer to the FAQ in scoutnet. No one at Council has EVER suggested that I submit advancement monthly, nor have they asked that I enter all advancement in December of each year. My district has had four District Executives in eight years (some I spent on the Cub Scout side.)

[milominderbinder2]

So Chief Seattle does not follow the BSA policies...

Our local council will sell duplicate rank patches to a Scout who shows on ScoutNet as having earned the rank. This often comes up as they go on summer camp staff or to Jamboree and need multiple shirts or just have outgrown or are replacing an old or lost shirt.

But what other councils will not follow policy on requiring Advancement Reports to purchase restricted items?

How are they able to ask the Scouts and units to follow the rules if they won't?

- Craig

[scoutaholic]

Our council shop will sell ranks / mbs / etc. to a scout or parent as replacements or duplicates. Although they don't check to see if they are really replacements.

They have asked for an advancement report when you purchase for several years. They used to check the report to be sure all the boys listed are registered. They have never compared the badges listed on the report to those actually being purchased. Now that we have gone to internet advancement, they don't look at the papers at all.

The first time I went to get badges after starting internet advancement, I didn't take any papers with me. (Silly me, I thought the whole point was to go paperless and not waste our precious resources.) They questioned the lack of report, but didn't make a big deal of it.

Our shops are run as a division of BSA National, not by our council. They don't have access to the council registration and advancement records in the shop. They collect the paper reports "as a service to the council".

[AquilaNegra2]

The little shop I go to doesn't have Internet access or access to Scoutnet. I think sometimes people who live in metropolises forget that there are a lot of Scouts in areas that still live in places that more closely resemble Ozzie and Harriet's neighborhood rather than Ozzy and Sharon's.

[wagionvigil]

Only Council Service centers have access to advancement printouts.