Required Training

[wagionvigil]

Wood Badge is great and it does help. But if you are a bear it is even better

[riverwalk]

My WB critter is smaller than the bear, so I would never argue with them, haha. I voted yes. Not because I like training that much, or that every class has been well presented. Experience as some have said, is experience. It has some value, sometimes, to some people. But it never takes the place of training. Aside from what the individual is made of (big factor too), a blend of training and experience offers many benefits to your members and their overall Scouting experience. In my own world of the Fire Service, this is a constant discussion. Compare any experienced member with a trained one, and each has something the other needs whether they are adult enough to state it. Secretly they may want the thing the other has. Both take time. In the interim, you're still working with others to handle a mission. Well, that's Scouting or almost anything else.

Some people in life have been forced into critical situations, very fast. Those are cases where perhaps they lacked certain training, but survived the "experience". Name a volunteer group, or profession that doesn't train or requires training, at least at basic levels? Why wouldn't someone want training? There are excuses, and maybe a few reasons.

And as for trainers that didn't "deliver", one can always join the training team. Just like in the Unit, when a parent complains, tell them there are openings if they want to be involved, haha. Oh yeah, I do like training. That's why over a few year period I try and re-take every training class for any position in Scouting. Why wouldn't I?

[evmori]

Yes. Ya need a license to drive!

[wagionvigil]

BSA at one time had Train the Trainer and they had Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge just to train quality trainers and they eliminated both of those programs SOme organizations do not use Violunteers to trainbut have staff that are paid just to train.

[lifescoutforlife]

Training can't be required but is helps more than what most believe. I know it would be almost impossible to have a boy run troop with out the leaders being trained. Our council give free rank advancements to all troops that have 75% trained leaders and only 2 troops are trained.

[wagionvigil]

I totally disagree with the statement that training cannot be required. It most definitely can. It can get to be get the Training or you cannot be registered in a certain position.
IMO
The following Must be Required
Youth Protection
Safety Afloat
Safe Swim Defense
Scoutmaster Fundamentals for anyone taking a troop on an overnight trip. Or going on an overnight trip with a unit that is counting towards two deep leadership.
Everyone must have Fast Start regardless of position.
Training is not just about skills it is about rules and Policies. Of course there are a lot of troops out there that totally ignor rules and policies.

[OldGreyBear]

Oddly enough I live in a Council where training is manditory, see

http://www.minsitrails.com/Documents/Ne ... /final.pdf

and we have the largest number of trained adults of any council, dont say it cant be done until you have done it

Then again, with all our training, I still hear comments on scouts not advancing because they didnt attend the required amount of events, or who the SM will apoint as senior patrol leader so while you can make training manditory, you cant legislate it gets followed

[9009scoutmaster]

Should every leader be trained? Yes.

Should we encorage all Leaders to be trained? Yes.

Should our training in scouting ever end? No

But should scouting require that all registered leaders be trained? I would have to say no to this question except for Youth Protection.

Safety Afloat or Safe Swim Defense is already required before a unit can get a local tour permit for any activity which includes swimming or boating.

[optimist]

Yes with a couple of caveats...

-- Only basic level training should be mandatory (an investment of no more than a dozen or so hours spread out over no more than three meetings). This meeting schedule should include Youth Protection training since it is mandatory in all circumstances.

-- Leaders should be allowed six months and at least three reasonable opportunities to complete this training. Leaders who have not completed the training as required would not be allowed to continue as a registered leader until the training is completed.

Note: Originally I only mentioned a six month period to complete the training. I added the "three reasonable opportunities" language because leaders should not be held responsible for something beyond their control (such as councils and districts that don't schedule training often enough). I would consider a reasonable opportunity to be a course offered within a two hour drive (100 miles). To me, that would include out of district and out of council training events within 100 miles if those events were advertised within the district.

As for why, well, that's simple. I've seen too many troops with poor leadership. I've also seen many many troops where training improved the program. Training is not a panacea but it can and does make a difference more often than not.

As for who, this would include all mandatory leaders required for (re)chartering except the charter head.

[wagionvigil]

A leader that does no have the time to be trained will not have time for the troop.

[mt_goodrich]

I think with proper budgeting of t ime, folks that are busy can find a way to attend training.

My jobs requires a great deal of travel via car and plane. Also to be available 24/7 in case my Incident Management Team via work gets called out.

However, I found time to attend College of Commissioner Science last week and will be attending Wood Badge on two different weekends in October.

[wagionvigil]

I was a Band Director for 35 years and I found time for training and troop activities plus managing a 150 piece marching band. A busy person will find the time as they are usually very good a time management. Of course having a supportive family helps.

[ScoutingStokes]

I voted yes! However, which training should be mandatory and how that is accomplished I'm not sure of. It's true, some Councils do a much better job of providing opportunites for training than do others. So to require training, Councils must be required to provide enough opportunities for it.

And why did the Train the Trainer program get dropped? At one time, I took that course. I did a lot of our own Pack, Troop and Day Camp Staff training myself just to make sure my volunteers knew not only WHAT was expected of them, but also make sure they knew HOW to accomplish their positions. Does anyone know if since the course was dropped, am I no longer allowed to conduct any training sessions? Even Fast Start?

[FieldSports]

Mandatory is a great concept. The real world however is limiting. I strongly encourage training for everyone. However, this is a volunteer group. You will turn some many people away, that over time we would no longer be the organization we are.

Where was all this need for training earlier in our organization? Do we need to read the book and learn - yes. Do we have to attend training to get there - no. I have learned more by the simple act of listening, watching others and reading. It is easy for those of us who have learned from experience to forget the amount of time that was required to get there.

Lastly, those units without trained leaders generally don't last. The boys will vote with their feet and move to the units that follow the program.

I think a more important question should be - Should BSA really enforce the rules and remove those that chose not too?

[Nuts4Scouts]

And why did the Train the Trainer program get dropped? At one time, I took that course. I did a lot of our own Pack, Troop and Day Camp Staff training myself just to make sure my volunteers knew not only WHAT was expected of them, but also make sure they knew HOW to accomplish their positions. Does anyone know if since the course was dropped, am I no longer allowed to conduct any training sessions? Even Fast Start?

Train the Trainer did not really get dropped. It was replaced by the Trainer Development Conference. I do not believe either course was/is mandatory to be a member of your district/council training staff.

Unless you are a registered Pack Trainer, or a member of your councils training team, I do not believe that you can run in-unit New Leader Essentials, Leader Specific, Youth Protection, Committee Challenge, etc, and have the participants be listed as trained by your council. You should check with your Council Training Chair.

All levels of Fast Start are now available online at BSA's National Web site. Along with Fast Start they have Youth Protection, Committee Challenge, Weather Hazards, Safe Swim, Safety Afloat, and more. Go thru the MyScouting site, register (make sure to include your BSA membership number), and then go to E-Learning.

http://www.scouting.org/Applications/My ... gFull.aspx

[AquilaNegra2]

Depends upon WHAT training becomes mandatory. Obviously Youth Protection, but some of the more advanced training should be on a positive push rather than a negative one. REWARD Scouters who take the training rather than punish those who don't. Again, they're VOLUNTEERS.

[wagionvigil]

ANyone that goes on campouts with a troop should havde scoutmasters funamemntals and the SM Outdoor Training. No Exceptions!!!
Amyone that fits the above Shold have CPR and AT the least Basic First Aid. Anyone that does treks etc should have wilderness first aid. No Exxcpetions!

[scrufmonst]

I would vote YES..........
There has been talk about "what" training should be required......in my mind this is why BSA has slated 3 different levels of training. Basic, Supplemental and Advanced. If I could be king for the day, Basic would be "required" and a refresh of two years on those courses that don't expire. Like they have done with YPT.
Supplemental and Advanced are just that, course that could be taken if the Leader wants to continue or advance their "education".
How to enforce this would be a difficult issue. There are many different ways to report out what training you have taken and these need to be streamlined, coordinated and collated. When this happens can you than proceed to enforcement. If a leader, even though they have submitted their applicaiton, is not in the "system" than how do you track that progress....? One solution to this might be a secure online way for adults to register with National and than National push that data down to the Councils and than to Districts.... This way you get your ID number right off the bat, you get your subscription to Scouting right off the bat, you can than log in comfortably to My Scouting right off the bat. Anyway, sideline rant.
Trainers are another topic, in my Coucil if you dont take TDC than you cannot train at the District or Council level, with that said should you bring it down to the Unit level, I would think this would promote standardization of Training thorughout the District and Council. At minimum the District Training Chairs should go to TDC and than be able to work with their "trainers" and help them along, if they hear or feel that the course is not up to par. And if taking the EDGE concept that all of us get exposed to than it just might work. This might get all those that are trained a productive and valuable experience out of the training we take.

Lastly, I have not really heard from the Cub Leaders here, IMO, ALL Cub Leaders need to have the requirement for training imposed on them. The 4 required courses for the "Trained" patch are essential to understand what the Program is and how it builds on itself. This should have a completion date of 2 months after "online" registration. But than again enforcement is the issue!

YiWB
Scott
..I used to be a Fox (NCAC 82-92)
DL, Pack Trainer
CS District Training Chair
CSRTS

[mhjacobson]

There is a difference in Boy SCouting from Girl Scouting that makes the training requirements for BSA more difficult to administer. GSA owns the units and can say 'if you want to be a GS leader, then you have to get trained first.' In BSA, the local chartered organization owns the unit which makes enforcement of the requirement more difficult. If you ever talk with leaders from other countries you will find that the scouting program is more like GSA than BSA in terms of enforcing their leadership training requirement.

Not that I am advocating the change -- in fact, I would prefer that BSA leaders could demonstrate such a high commitment to training that we would have one of the highest percentages in terms of 'leaders fully trained' in the world scouting movement.

[mhjacobson]

Believe it or not -- the Trainer Development Conference is a requirement for anyone who desires to do BSA training.

It is also a BSA policy that a person (with the exception of the pack trainer) who is a registered in a unit should NOT be the person doing the training of persons from that unit when the training is for leaders exclusively from that unit. This is do ensure the quality of the training.