Venturing Officer Time Toward Rank

[FieldSports]

I am aware of a Scoutmaster who would not accept the time as Crew President towards the youth's time in leadership for Eagle within the Troop. This was even within the same COR with same Unit numbers (but different Crew Advisor).

I don't think this is right, but need help.

Where (if it exists) are the rules regarding use of time as a Venturing Officer (President in this case) that states it can be used for leadership requirement sign-off in a Boy Scout troop?

I do know that he could earn his Eagle in the Crew, but he wants it through the troop.

[Chief J]

Requirement #4 in the Boy Scout handbook states:

"4. While a Life Scout, serve actively for a period of six months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility:
-Boy Scout troop. Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, �senior patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, or instructor.
-Varsity Scout team. Captain, cocaptain, program manager, squad leader, team secretary, Order of the Arrow team representative, librarian, quartermaster, chaplain aide, instructor, or den chief.
-Venturing crew/ship. President, vice president, secretary, treasurer, boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, or storekeeper.

Nothing more, nothing less if the SM won't accept, talk to your District Advancement Chair - or your Troop Advancement Chair to correct the SM.

Chief J

[molscouter]

Is the boy in question asking the Scoutmaster to sign off on the requirement? If so, I can see his point, the boy is asking the SM to sign off on something he may not have seen. If he's not accepting the signature of the Crew Advisor, that's a different question.

Per this site,
"Scouts who earn the First Class rank while a registered member of a Boy Scout troop or Varsity team may elect to continue working toward Eagle as a registered member of the Boy Scout troop or a registered member of a Venturing crew, or while retaining dual membership in a Venturing Crew, or while retaining dual membership registration in both a troop/team and a Venturing crew. Whichever registration status a boy elects, both Scoutmaster and crew Advisor need to confirm which adult leader the boy plans to have oversee his advancement process toward the rank of Eagle. That selected leader needs too be fully cognizant of the 12 steps from Life to Eagle (see description in this manual), the timeline requirements of certain merit badgess required for Eagle (see the current edition of Boy Scout Requirements), and the requirements of the Eagle Scout leadership service project (see reference in this manual).

Position of responsibility requirements may be met by the Venturer serving as president vice president secretary, or treasurer in his crew, or as boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, or storekeeper in his ship.

The Scoutmaster conference will be conducted by the Advisor or Skipper.

As the Venturer meets the requirements for the Star and Life ranks, a board of review is conducted by the crew or ship committee. The Eagle board of review follows the procedure established by the local council."

Sounds to me like the SM, Crew advisor and youth need to have a sit down.

[FieldSports]

Thanks Chief J and Molscouter! I had not realized that the requirements now listed Team and Crew offices as acceptable. The SM is new (50 Year troop though) and Advisor is experienced. Bad blood between them.

I will point the rules out to the SM, so more youth are not discouraged.

Again, thanks for the info.

[wagionvigil]

Bad Blood? SM's hate Venturing. That is why I want it to be a mandatory move

[scoutaholic]

Bad Blood? SM's hate Venturing. That is why I want it to be a mandatory move

I think it would be more accurate to say that SOME SM's hate Venturing, or BAD SM's hate Venturing.

Having been SM for 9 years, I can't see how a good SM could hate Venturing. Obviously the SM who hates Venturing doesn't understand his job, nor the Venturing program. Venturing is as much a part of the scouting family as Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, and Varsity Scouting. Can a good parent choose which children they love? Can a good SM be see blinded that he doesn't see Venturing as a natural progression in fulfilling the Aims of scouting?

Just as children grow and progress from Elementary School, through High School, and then to Adulthood and College, scouts also progress. A high school administrator or teacher can't be doing his/her job if they tell the students not to go to college, or if they keep them in high school forever and keep them from progressing.

It's a safe bet that the SM who hates Venturing is also not the SM of a troop that is boy-led and boy-run. SM for them is likely an ego booster, or a power trip. This SM probably makes their own rules, and is not trained. If he/she is trained, then they didn't understand it and they need to go to training again. Did they leave woodbadge early and miss the last day and a half when Troop 1 became Crew 1?

[wagionvigil]

I did a session on the Commissioner and Venturing for Our council commissioner training. There were several there that said out loud they have no use for Venturing. My comment to them and to the Council commissioner was. " Maybe it is time to get some new commissioners and get rid of those of you that do not support the programs of the BSA" That was not well receieved by the ones that said it and the council commissioner said somethng needed to be done. We now have an assistant council commissioner for Venturing and each district has an asst district commissioner for Venturing. The session was last fall the new comissioners were started last week. Slowly getting there.

[kwildman]

Good for you Wagionvigil! I dont understand why SMs have this aversion to Venturing. Venturing is simply MORE SCOUTING. But I guess it shouldnt surprise me since i have heard SM's say they have no use for Cub Scouts either.

[wagionvigil]

We have a Scout From the Republic of China at our camp this summer"She" was explaining their scouting program and they diivide the Junior high(Scouts) from the senior high (ventures) once out of high school they can be a (Rover) until age 27. This is very close to the Polish Program at the 10 and 05 NJ there was a Polish Troop attending and I got to talk to them. AGain they are allowed to stay in the program until 27 then they become supervisors(adult leaders). Are we missing the boat here?

[RMM]

This is a very interesting question. I will bring it up at the next Council Advancement Committee Meeting. I wonder, If the Scout is using the Venture Crew position as his POR, then the Venture Crew leaders hold the SM Conference, sign the Eagle Application, and for the Unit on the Eagle Application, the Scout lists Crew "X." If the Scout is dual registered and want to list the Troop as the Unit the Eagle was earned - "Awarded" under, then the POR is with the Troop and the SM signs the Eagle Application. To date, all of the Eagle Applications I have reviewed listing Crew Positions have listed the Crew as the Unit the Eagle was earned in; none have had a Crew POR with a Scout Troop as the Unit. I have reviewed around 30 Eagle Applications - not many yet. I agree, contact the District Advancement Chair and have them participate in the discussion.

[FieldSports]

New SM in this case = insecure and not on board with how Venture helps keep the older youth around. Result was Venture crew (all of them) left the CO and went where they were welcomed. Bad Blood = poor choice of words. Advisor was always asking "what do you want?" from the SM.

Agree that educating SM about advantages is key.

[VenturingL]

I agree with post that the Venturing Advisor needs to be the one who verifies the POR requirements were met, since he or she would have been the one witnessing/counseling/etc. BUT, with a letter stating the requirements were met, which the SM should accept (a scout is trustworthy) or at least confer with Advisor if any doubts, the scout should still be able to Eagle through the troop. SM's need to realize that Venturing is not in competition with the Troop; it complements the Troop.

Our crew benefits from boys who came to us through Boy Scouts (we have 4 boys who are from 3 or 4 different troops, so lots of experiences to pull from). We also have benefitted from girls who came from strong Girl Scout troops who focused on camping and leadership skills. Some of our scouts have NEVER been in scouting until they joined the crew - that doesn't mean they don't have something to bring to the table. These same Venturers are actively involved in staffing events primarily for Cub Scouts. All this gives the scouts additional experiences to take back to their respective troops.

[FrankJ]

I would not waste a lot of time with this. If the SM will not accept the POR, just earn your eagle with the crew. The Eagle rank stands on its own; there is no sub title on where it was earned. For that matter once the rank is earned the SM has no choice but to accept it.

Another option is would be to discuss this with the COR who is the same for the crew & troop and is responsible to make sure everybody plays together.

[mhjacobson]

Yes, the prior poster is correct -- if your and your primary registration is with the CREW, do your advancement work with the crew and have the advisor sign off on your eagle requirements. Don't let an adult get in your way.