Who should choose leadership positions in the troop?

[ASMROB68]

We have recently had a situation where elections were held in the patrols for the leadership positions (PL, APL, QM) but the SPL and ASPL were appointed by a few of the adult leaders. The explanation I was given was that our troop is so small and that an election would turn into a popularity contest. Are there any BSA rules to help determine whether this was wrong or right? What do other troops do in these situations? Are their "term limits" involved?

[BM_Crawford]

Boy run troop the spl is voted in, thats the rules. If you have a problem with the new spl I'd tell the SM. Question, is the SPL a son of one of the leaders?

[cballman]

we use both elected and appointed positions in our troop. the SPL has been elected the last two terms. 6 months each. the SM had appointed some of the previous SPLs because that is what the boys wanted. now we have a troop wide election. it is a secret ballot so now one knows how many they won by or lost by. QM and troop quides are appointed by the troop leadership and each boy is ask if that is what they want to do. also if a boy has a term for 6 months and only actully works the position for three months then he is given credit for only three months. the best way to find out BSA regulations is to attend roundtable and get trained as a leader for your position. then if you are still fuzzy ask how other troops do theirs. I dont think there is a right or wrong answer to this question.

[ASMROB68]

Both the SPL and ASPL are leaders sons. This is not the first time that these boys have been appointed in a position. One time a scout who was elected to a position was asked to step aside so that one of the boys could have that spot so that he could meet the leadership requirement for a rank before going to summer camp. I almost blew a gasket when I found out about that (no it was not my son who was asked to step aside) several months later. I am our troops advancement chair and they tend to not tell me things that they know I will disagree with until it is to late for me to do anythng about it.

[wagionvigil]

You may want to get you commissioner involved on that one.There is nothing that hurts kids more than favoritism.

[don]

How old is this troop?
A election is a popularity contest. Just like when we vote for elected officials the most popular gets the most votes and wins the election.
The official way is that the troop elects the SPL and the SPL picks his team to help him run the troop. Sound familiar.
The electing of a poor leader should be a learning experience for the scouts. So they learn to elect a better leader next time.
Where is the CC in all of this? The CC or the COR are probably the only ones that would be able to stop this from happening.

[ASM-142]

My troop elects all positions. This may not be right for all troops but this is the way we do things and we only have 14 boys. At a minimum the SPL MUST be elected and not appointed to allow the boys to run their own troop.

[teepeeayy]

Leader's sons? What a surprise! What the heck does THAT teach the rest of the troop? When these boys go for a job interview ina few years, are the dads coming along to ask the other applicants to step aside?

Time to look for another troop, I've been there and done that!

[OldGreyBear]

Actually, the way the rules are written is that the SPL is elected and he "gets" to appoint his team to run the troop. To do otherwise would be like electing GW to be president and then give him John Edwards to be his VP, it really wouldnt be his VP now would it? The president gets to shape his Cabinet, a SPL should do the same

Electing all scouts to positions may be the way it works for a troop, but its against the way its supposed to be done.

[Rick Tyler]

The only correct way to handle this is to follow BSA procedure: the Patrol Leaders and Senior Patrol Leader are elected -- all other positions are appointed by the SPL with the advise and consent of the Scoutmaster. APLs are appointed by the Patrol Leaders.

Anything else is just someone's idea of how to improve a system that has been running successfully for 95 years (except for the 70's, which we like to forget). It's not Boy Scouting.

[Chief J]

When we elect leader's in the Troop, we do it in several steps.

1st. The SPL is elected by the entire Troop Leadership. After he is elected, he is able to appoint his ASPL.
2nd. The patrols vote for their Patrol Leader.
After Patrol Leader's are set, the SPL and ASPL appoint their staff (QM, Scribe, Historian).
Finally, PL of each patrol appoints their APL.

Chief J

[ASM-142]

1st. The SPL is elected by the entire Troop Leadership.

Do you mean the adult leaders when you say Troop Leadership? If this is the case then there is a flaw in your election process. The SPL should be elected by the "boys" of the troop.

[ASM-142]

After Patrol Leader's are set, the SPL and ASPL appoint their staff (QM, Scribe, Historian).

Why does your troop have the SPL wait to appoint the QM, Scribe, & Historian until after the patrol leader's are set?

Do you do this to keep a boy from holding multiple positions?

[Guneukitschik]

Having Scouts fill multiple positions should only occur when there are not enough Scouts to fill all of the positions.

Otherwise, the positions should be "spread out" for a better term, to allow everyone the chance to learn and gain experience.


I'm sure the SPL waits to see who is elected PL and then selects the remaining POR's from the remaining Scouts.

Plus, how fun would it be if a small handful of Scouts ran the entire troop and everyone else just sat around doing nothing..... Participation is a key ingredient to learning in Scouting!

[ASM-142]

Plus, how fun would it be if a small handful of Scouts ran the entire troop and everyone else just sat around doing nothing..... Participation is a key ingredient to learning in Scouting!

If only a small percentage of boys in the troop, no matter how big or small, are capable of fulfilling POR they dual roles should not be a problem.

[BM_Crawford]

No you really should only have one possition of responsibility unless one of the two is JASM or your troop isn't big enough.

It's important for everyone to get involved like Guneukitschik said. It's gets people involved and makes them stay active most of the time.

[ASM-142]

Ok look at this way. You have a scout that is responsible and is a patrol leader. The troop is looking for a quarter master but none of the scouts that do not have a position are qualified for QA or PL. The scout that is a PL is qualified and is willing to make the time available.

Who should be the QM?

[RWSmith]

Ok look at this way. You have a scout that is responsible and is a patrol leader. The troop is looking for a quarter master but none of the scouts that do not have a position are qualified for QA or PL. The scout that is a PL is qualified and is willing to make the time available. Who should be the QM?

ASM-142, I have an unknown variable in the problem you presented: Is one of the unqualified Scouts willing to learn the QM's job? Is so, the the PL who is qualified (and willing) to do both, should NOT fill both positions.

[Chief J]

This is in respnse to some of the questions asked of me in the thread.


In response to ASM-142:

Do you mean the adult leaders when you say Troop Leadership? If this is the case then there is a flaw in your election process. The SPL should be elected by the "boys" of the troop.

Iapologize in re-reading my post, it is wrong. it should have said:

The SPL is elected by the Troop. Our adults do not take part in our elections.


In response to the second post:

Why does your troop have the SPL wait to appoint the QM, Scribe, & Historian until after the patrol leader's are set? Do you do this to keep a boy from holding multiple positions?

the primary purpose is to ensure the Youth Leader's have the opportunity toleade the Troop. I think it is important for the SPL and PL's to focus on leadership and not getting bogged down with support roles. We wait to appoint support roles after the Patrol Elections so the Patrol has the best available scout for the position. We do not limit APL's from having duel roles if that is the way it shakes out with the Boys.

[Chief J]

Ok look at this way. You have a scout that is responsible and is a patrol leader. The troop is looking for a quarter master but none of the scouts that do not have a position are qualified for QA or PL. The scout that is a PL is qualified and is willing to make the time available. Who should be the QM?

I will speak for my Troop only: 1)we are large enough at 20 members that the Troop can fill every leadership role without doubling up. 2) we have an adult member on our committee that mirrors each position in the Troop. (I.e., Adult Quartermaster, Troop Secretary and Troop Treasurer, etc). 3) Many of the Scouts in the Troop are also involved in sports, band, etc).

I prefer to see my Leader's focus on leading (SPL and PL's) If they are doing it correctly, they have a full plate being leader's. Other Scout's can back fill the support roles, and if they are "not qualified" when they are appointed to the position, we have an adult who will can help them learn the position.

I would like to pose a question to those troops who have the Youth Leader's (SPL and PL) hold support (QM, Hist, etc) positions:

Who is leading the Troop/Patrol when your PL/dual support Scout is doing the Support function? I.E., Your PL/QM is in the equipment room sigining in/out equipment for a weekend camping trip.

Chief J