Timing of Boards of Review

[smtroop168]

Upon further review...go with #1. Sounds like the new SM will "consider the source" and tear up the letter anyway.

You could show the letter to parents that may want their kids saved from this SM and maybe some will transfer and help with carpooling to meetings.

[Ursus Snorous Roarus]

I wouldn't have any problem showing that letter to the DE and the Inst Head. Simple question: "Are these the kind of people you want representing your organization?".
I would guess as well the new unit will disregard the letter... keeping in mind there's always two sides to the story.
Constructively, this can also be a time for some self reflection on other, maybe smaller issues that may have contributed to the animosity.

[ThunderingWind]

This Scoutmaster is on a power trip and he is holding the boys back. Also there is no help coming from council. The CE basically said well thats how he does things. The troop is large and is very active and I think the council is just plain afraid of loosing those numbers and the unit. It is a shame when Numbers come before the Boys. Oh that is how it really is is it not?

If the Council Exec is putting his head in the sand, it is time to take this to the Region, a lawyer and the media.

But then again, I am a subscriber to General Sherman School of Diplomacy. Hmmm, the phone is just across the desk....

Seriously, I would say this has got to be nipped in the bud, but the bud done gone and growed into a tree. Time to bring in the chain saw.

[joat]

... it is time to take this to the Region, a lawyer and the media.

You could get an attorney to review this.

The lawyer will read the letter and listen to the story and then ask "OK, what would you like to happen? How can I help you?"
What do you tell him? What exactly do you want an attorney to do?

[wagionvigil]

The lawyer will read the letter and listen to the story and then ask "OK, what would you like to happen? How can I help you?"
What do you tell him? What exactly do you want an attorney to do?

Simple: I want the troop leadership removed from Scouting as they are not following BSA Guidelines on Advancement and are holding the boys back from advancing. The Council Executive is also a party for knowing this is going on and not doing anything to correct it.

[Billiken]

Every time I read this thread I get mad.

[joat]

Simple: I want the troop leadership removed from Scouting as they are not following BSA Guidelines on Advancement and are holding the boys back from advancing. The Council Executive is also a party for knowing this is going on and not doing anything to correct it.

Sounds good. How is an attorney going to make that happen?

[wagionvigil]

That is what they get paid to figure out. We had a Scout Executive that was really a work. Everyone said you cannot do anything to them without regions approval. One of the Executive Board members was an attorney and figured out a way. SO where there is a will there is a way.

[smtroop168]

USR: The IH is one of the four that signed the letter. So I guess that tells you where he stands.

I guess the term defamation of character comes to mind given they sent the letter to the new troop.

[eaglesmom]

You all have been so encouraging. It is nice to know there is so much support on this board.

Here is what was written in the letter.
"After an intensive decision-making session in-committee about recent developments concerning your recent inter-actions with our Troop's Scouts, Scout families, and Leaders along with a review of corrosive and disruptive actions and statements about our operations, policies, and leadership that you, as a Scout parent, historically and recently made, the committee unanimously but cordially recommends that you also transfer your son, C., - in good standing - to...."

My son decided to leave the troop the last day of summer camp. He told he had to do another leadership position, that the 12 months as SPL as a Life was not enough for the Eagle scout rank. He was told he did not have Scout Spirit because of being in high school sports. He was not able to make many meetings during the school year because of this and I was told by the SM he would have to quit if he wanted to be an Eagle Scout. Once school was over he was at every meeting. He was told he did not like little kids and that was bad. again, not showing scout spirit. He has ADD and noise bothers him. Hyper kids who run wild bother him. It is part of the disability. So I guess that is not Scout Spirit because you decide to teach a skill for a merit badge to an older scout. He helped 2 younger scouts earn a merit badge at camp but I guess that is not good enough.
This troop is all about numbers. The charter rep is the SM's dad. The committee chair that signed the letter was far worse as a SM. He also made everything about the number of meetings the boys attended.

As a SPL my son was told he was doing a great job at being a leader. He was very active. My son was prevented from earning merit badges until he was 1st class. Which in this troup is 2 years. So when he completed his Eagle scout project last year he still had 5 merit badges to earn. He was told by the SM he would help him but never did. My son tried to call numerous times but no one answered and no one called him back. So my son was blamed for not trying to complete the merit badges. SM was the merit badge counselor.

My other son was ready to be 1st class last year. The SM told me so. Of course he never had BORs so he earned that rank this summer. When I approached the SM about it he told me, "you hear only what you want to hear." So he is calling me a liar and not owning up to what he tells people. He tells people what they want to hear and apparently it is not what he has in mind.

That is my sin, talking to other parents and leaders about the problems with the SM. So he kicked me out. He has no plans on changing. He has built the troop from 5 scouts to over 35. He is the talk in the council. He can do anything he wants and they do not care. Numbers are up and that is all that matters.

The new SM knows about everything. I called him before camp was even over to see if he would take my son. It was either change troops or quit scouts. My son wants what he has earned. I also warned the new SM about the letter. I never though about the defamation of character. Very good point!

I really do not care if the SM gets on here and attacks me. I know what I have done is not wrong and I know I never made up anything.
The new Sm is great! He is a parent (old SM is not) and he knows how to help kids with disabilities. He has even asked me to teach merit badges to the troop, something the old SM would not allow me to do. He told me swimming had to be done at camp only. I know that is not true. I am really gun-shy about starting with a new troop but so far by boys have loved it. It was the first time I saw the older one smile about scouts. He was made to feel at home and was appreciated for who he is.

I am not someone who likes confrontation. My son is the same way. He chose to leave the troop instead of staying and fight for what he wanted. I would love to bring in an attorney but would be too chicken to do so. This is a small town of under 3500.

It makes me so mad thinking of what they did to me. I really do not care though. I endured these leaders for too many years. The SM told my son he would regret leaving the troop. Not sure if that was a threat or not. The Eagle Scouts pictures are on their website. His 2 brothers are on there. My son is not earning his Eagle Scout rank to be on a website with his brothers. He is earning it for himself. Isn't that the way it is supposed to be?

Again, thanks everyone for all your thought and comments. It helps in such dark times.

[wagionvigil]

If he gets on here. (I hope he applies) and attacks you he will. First removed from the forum and second I will drive to Dubois and talk to the council Exec. only 2 hours for me. When I show I will have the Area President with me. Who is a Judge.

[ThunderingWind]

If he gets on here. (I hope he applies) and attacks you he will. First removed from the forum and second I will drive to Dubois and talk to the council Exec. only 2 hours for me. When I show I will have the Area President with me. Who is a Judge.

Can I go just to watch and learn?

[ThunderingWind]

You all have been so encouraging. It is nice to know there is so much support on this board.
......edited......
Again, thanks everyone for all your thought and comments. It helps in such dark times.

If we lived closer, I would form a private trust just to be a CO and make Troop for you. I have worked boys that have various levels of ADD, ADHD and SAD in Scouting so I understand how a poorly operated troop can effect them. And I know how a well run troop can effect them.

[joat]

If he gets on here. (I hope he applies) and attacks you he will. First removed from the forum

Really now, you're proposing to remove a new member before he's joined and posted?? I'd like to hear what he has to say!

[Ursus Snorous Roarus]

Eaglesmom = I am glad to hear things are working out for you. A clean start can do wonders for people sometimes, and it looks like it already is for your boys. Unfortunately, sometimes people just don’t hit it off together. I hope that SM does some thinking about the way he handled your situation, it sounds like he’s made some poor judgments and said some things that will only catch up with him over time. Just take the high road and write it off as a learning experience, don’t waste any more effort on a sad experience that is now successfully behind you. This stuff is supposed to be fun! Enjoy!

[FieldSports]

Eaglesmom. Great to hear you have moved on. That is the best answer.

A little "real life" experience for you. Are they wrong in how they deliver the Scouting program? Absolutely! However, taking the route of lawyers, SE, Region involvement, National involvement, etc. will result in only one action. The SE will send you and your son a nice letter that basically says "BSA is a volunteer organization. We are revoking your memberships. The amount of your prorated fee of $x.xx is enclosed. You may contest our decision by contacting XX at XX regional office" They do not have to provide or justify their actions. You are "black listed" for life.

Again, were you right? Absolutely! But ask yourself, would that be worth it?

You have three options:

One:
Lawyer up and get the letter. See above.

Two:
Register only your sons in the new troop. You take no position in Scouting. Do not under any circumstance involve yourself in the new unit. They can not kick you out of an organization that you are not registered in! Being only a "parent" is wonderful. Continue to stay in pleasant contact with all the parents in the unit. Educate yourself with all facets of scouting and get your facts and the rules straight ahead of time. Document every error and fault that unit leaders continue to commit with names, dates, witnesses, etc. Absolutley, say nothing negative and do nothing for a year. At the year mark, take the list of all the rules broken, missed advancements, youth complaints, adult complaints, etc to the head of the chartering organization (not the COR). Simply state that he/she has two choices. Remove all the leadership and follow the rules or you hand the whole package to the local newspaper as a "human interest" story about "abuses" by the their local chartering organization. Given them only 72 hours to respond. No response and hand the package to the Newspaper, DE, SE, and Regional Director. See above (however they can not touch your sons).

Three:
Success = Best Payback. One post said take the high road. Get involved with the new troop as the merit badge counselor, have your sons earn Eagle, help the district, etc. Show them you are committed to the BSA program. Let the old unit see your great deeds. Teach your sons show how true Eagles act. "Honor is found in actions, not in words" The world is littered with idiots. 99% of my idiots are no longer around. I stand proud.

[eaglesmom]

I have no intention of going after the old troop. I see no purpose in doing so. We are moving on. My boys are excited. I have told the new SM I do not want to be involved. He understands. I have told him everything. And he has no problem with me being involved. But I have a lot of healing to do. This was an attack on my character.

Again, I really appreciate all the support. If I had never found this board I would never have questioned anything this troop did. I objected to their policies when I discovered here that they were not following the Scoutmaster handbook. It apparently was wrong for me to do so.

[ThunderingWind]

Again, I really appreciate all the support. If I had never found this board I would never have questioned anything this troop did. I objected to their policies when I discovered here that they were not following the Scoutmaster handbook. It apparently was wrong for me to do so.

No, it was right for to you to question. What is wrong is that the Council Exec is not doing anything and the Tropp is being allowed to do this.

[smtroop168]

You have to decide what's in the best interest of your sons and it sounds like you have.

Granted there are those who want to storm the scout hut with pitchforks and take out the entire bunch of them and those who just say move on.

Character assassination happened to me by our COR who wrote a 10 page letter to our new Pastor saying how hosed up I was as was the entire BSA. Unforunately for him, he wrote the letter on official government letterhead and signed it in his official government capacity. The Pastor fired him and I suggested that possibly the General would be interested in his "work". I didn't pursue that because it would have potentially hurt his family. Haven't seen him since.

I do not believe a CE with any brains would revoke your membership. The Chief Scout Exec wouldn't view that favorably.

I also disagree that you should not get involved with the new troop. The new SM sounds pretty smart and as a SM I can use all the help I can get.

[cballman]

Sometimes it is hard for us adults to do something that has hurt us like has happened here. I would suggust taking some time away from scouting for you not the kids. Refocus on what you want to do. when you are ready and only when YOU are ready then take small steps to get back in. I have had to rethink a few things myself and I have prepared for the long haul. I am not ready to give up on scouting just because my son turned 18 and Eagle. NO WAY I am now getting primed up for the fall season of Band and Scouting. So just keep your head up and go forward with your kids.