How much can a CoR do?

[West]

I'm the CoR for a Pack of about 35 boys (it had folded and I helped get it restarted less then one year ago), and a Troop of 6 (at least 14 years old, it was my troop as a boy). The youngest boy in the troop is currently 16 years old. My problem is with the troop. Their motivation is low, and they do very little in terms of service to anyone but themselves (not what I like to see from scouting). The patrol method was once strong it the troop but disappeard (one bad scoutmaster can do this). The scoutmaster was replaced, and the new guy is exellent. However, none of these boys had much responsibility when young, and are unwilling to really pick up any now. My major concern is that we have new Webelos moveing up in April, meaning that there are 4 months to get the troop working right. I'm not really sure how to go about this, or even how much of a right I have to try. I know I can fire the scout master, but I firmly belive he's not the problem and don't want to loose a good leader because of the way the guy before him did things. And even if I did it wouldn't fix anything, or make the boys do anything diffrent. Any suggestions?

[ASM-142]

What kind of committment is there from the Troop Committee?

[teepeeayy]

I always found the best way to gain commitment is to make it theirs to create. When you were a kid, didn't you get the most satisfaction out of making it, buying it, or earning it yourself?

The troop can't survive if you say "we're going to do this..."

An environment of creativity needs to be created. "What do you want to do?" Then help make it happen. I'd keep it simple at first. The boys have to make it happen, you can't will it. Start small, maybe a small community project. Then grow from there.

Good luck.

[commish3]

It sounds like you have already done the most important part of your job, you have evaluted the needs of the program and selected good leadership. Now you need to work with the Toop Committee Chair to give the troop leadership the resources and support they need to deliver the program. The boys who learned the bad habits will have the opportunity to learn good ones. Their individual progress in scouting will be determined by how well they accept these "new" expectations.

[Chief J]

I agree with Commish3, you as the CoR have alread doen the hard part. Let the Troop Committee and SM Staff know you support them as they try to make change. It will take a little time to correct itself, but with strong leaders who set the example, you are on your way.

Best Wishes,
Chief J

[West]

Thanks for the tips guys. The commite call me yesterday and requested I give the boys a 'why are you here (meetings only dosn't seem like much fun)?' talk. The advantage of being young is I can do that without seeming like a parent lectureing them. It worked almost like a switch. Half have commited to JLT (second time for them), one is calling about a service project over christmas break (at a location suggested by him and agreeded on by the other boys), and they are going to attend the Klondike. I told them that we (the church) would like to hear that they are doing some sort of activity every month. We don't care much about what it is, service projects, camping, laser tag, bowling- whatever (though obviously we want to see service on a regular basis). Hopefully they follow through now.

[OldGreyBear]

Um, Mr West ? You may want to revisit the activity of Laser Tag, its expressly forbidden in the Guide to Safe Scouting.

Check under IX, Sports and Activities, Unauthorized and Restricted Activities

Pointing of any type of firearm (including paintball, dye, or lasers) at any individual is unacceptable. However, law enforcement departments and agencies using firearms in standard officer/agent training may use their training agenda when accompanied with appropriate safety equipment in the Law Enforcement Venturing program.

http://www.usscouts.org/safety/g2ss.html

I know you are just getting rolling, but if they are going to do an activity a month, why not make it Scouting related, somehow. If Bowling, then thats part of the Sports merit badge, If a service project, its service hours, if camping, then the camping merit badge, have them plan for the "additional activities" that this badge now requires. If its too much to soon, then try to ease this in over time.

[ASM-142]

The requirements for Sports Merit Badge include:

Take part for one full season as a member of an organized team in ONE of the following sports: baseball, basketball, bowling, cross-country, diving, fencing, field hockey, football, golf, gymnastics, ice hockey, lacrosse, rugby, skating (ice or roller), soccer, softball, swimming, team handball, tennis, track and field, volleyball, water polo, or wrestling (or any other recognized team sport approved in advance by your counselor, except boxing and karate).

However, the G2SS excludes football

Varsity football teams and interscholastic or club football competition and activities are unauthorized activities.

What is correct?

[Rick Tyler]

The requirements for Sports Merit Badge include:

Take part for one full season as a member of an organized team in ONE of the following sports: baseball, basketball, bowling, cross-country, diving, fencing, field hockey, football, (...).

However, the G2SS excludes football

Varsity football teams and interscholastic or club football competition and activities are unauthorized activities.

What is correct?

Football is not authorized as a troop or patrol activity. BSA does not tell Scouts what sports they can or cannot do on their own time. It is pretty strange isn't it? I suspect it has to do with liability, but that's just a guess.

[ASM-142]

Varsity football teams and interscholastic or club football competition and activities are unauthorized activities

I can see why the G2SS would exclude club football from a troop activity. However, I do not see how a troop could be a varisity football team or interscholastic team

[wagionvigil]

Heres the deal. Johnny plays football for the Middle School team. That is his sport. A troop cannot play football of any type at any time . You know Pick up games at Camporees,meetings etc. Actually Capture the flag isn't any safer than football.

[West]

Well to be honest, any activity is scouting related- if you do it with scouts. Also it's not my job to tell the boys they have to do stuff twords a MB, it's their job to come up with an activity and as long it meets the safety requirements it's ours to help them do it (rides, adults etc.). If they want to have a marbles tournment one day who am I to say no? There's a lot more to scouting then working on badges.

Didn't know on the laser tag, I understand the need for safty, but that's a bit over the top. But the troop commite/scout master will catch that. They are current with all that sort of stuff and good at their jobs.

They all earned camping long long ago, have more service hours then they need, and for the most part have compleated the MBs they are intrested in. Now it's just more keeping them active (only the last 2 years have been a problem as far as activity goes, and the 1.5 years before that had leadership issues). As I've said these are older guys, and they are the hardest to retrain and keep involved.

and West(ley) is the first name, Ely the second.

Actually Capture the flag isn't any safer than football.

Actually the way we used to play it was a heck of a lot more dangerous. Fun though.

[wagionvigil]

SAw a kid at a camporee step in a Ground Hog Hole. need I say More? Compound Above the Knee! Twisting Break Below!

[West]

Ouch. But if we go and make the program so safe that nothing like that ever happens we will also remove all the fun. Takeing risks and doing stupid things is part of being a kid and learning. Any outdoor activitly has risk, we should train to minimize them, but shouldn't give up the activity. As adults we have to walk a fine line (And stuff I used to do as a kid drives me nuts when the boys do it now- though at the same time I'm often amused- can't show them that part).

[wagionvigil]

Alot of what we see as danger is a perceived danger. I will use Rappelling as an example.
When they first decided to have rappelling at the NJ some folks thought they were crazy. They just knew someone would be killed. SO when they did the test at the Jambo they used one tower. They made sure the army medics were stationed right there. Well it was a good thing they did so they could be close to the BMX track to haul off the broken bodies.
AT the 97 and 01 Jamborees Tower D did approx. 1000 Rappels per day without ANY Injuriues. So people sometimes see danger and there is none.
I think as time goes on Other sports will be added to SPorts MB

[commish3]

The prohibition on laser tag has nothing to do with safety.

The BSA is not the place to learn about pointing weapons at other human beings. The only exception allowed is in a supervised law enforcement training situation in Venturing.

[West]

Maybe, though why don't squirt guns make the list? I'm a big advocate of gun safty, but rules like this are frankly over the top enough to be counter productive. Then again I come from an area where is kids arn't hunting by the time they are 14 then people wonder why their dad won't spend time with them. Guns and toy guns are diffrent, one would hope that we could devise a safty program that can figure out what the diffrence is. To pretend they are the same or that our scouts arn't smart enough to tell the diffrence is just plain silly. (Paintball I understand, because there is a projectile in that case.) To lump them together like that makes the real thing seem somehow less serious. Oh well, it was probably written by people who don't understand the diffrence. I'm amused about 'hunting' MB with a camera too.

[commish3]

West
How many other ways do you think the scouts could think of to have a water fight without using water pistols?

[West]

Tons, so why arn't water pistols on the list if it's a gun issue?