Star/Life POR vs SM leadership project

[smtroop168]

How many of you have used the SM leadership project for req 5 for Star/Life vice serving in a POR? What kinds of projects did you have the scout do?

[Quailman]

I know of one troop in which a boy led a project to build birdhouses for placement in a local nature preserve, thereby allowing the troop to earn a Unit Hornaday Award. It was not nearly the level of planning and effort needed for an Eagle Project, or even an individual Hornaday Award. An ASM acquired the materials and coordinated with the preserve manager, and the scout led the troop in construction and placement.

[Mrw]

We have had a couple that did projects.

One that I remember was to lead the troop elections. He had fair warning and some guidance as to what was expected. He did a pretty poor job without having done any preparations beforehand.

The SM did not hold up the Star badge, but did talk to him about how he could have done better and had him do it again the next time around to show improvement.

We currently have far more kids needing positions than there are positions to be had, so I am expecting more projects in the future.

[scoutaholic]

I've only seen the project option done once in my many years of scouting.

Johnies Mom looked at his advancement requirements the week before a court of honor. She figured she could push him through the last partial MB, but he didn't have a position. She saw the option of a project instead of the time and asked me about it. I have no authority so assign such projects and referred her to the SM.

He was assigned to inventory all the equipment in the scout shed, and them make a checkout sheet so we can track who has equipment and make sure it all gets returned. I know he spent some time in the shed, and asked about how to make the check-out sheet. I've never seen a check-out sheet nor a copy of the inventory list, but I know he received his rank advancement.

[smtroop168]

I know of one troop in which a boy led a project to build birdhouses for placement in a local nature preserve, thereby allowing the troop to earn a Unit Hornaday Award. It was not nearly the level of planning and effort needed for an Eagle Project, or even an individual Hornaday Award. An ASM acquired the materials and coordinated with the preserve manager, and the scout led the troop in construction and placement.

This one is not bad.

One that I remember was to lead the troop elections. He had fair warning and some guidance as to what was expected. He did a pretty poor job without having done any preparations beforehand.

This one is weaker. IMHO. I think the SM has the latitiude in this situation to have the scout try again.

Johnies Mom looked at his advancement requirements the week before a court of honor. She figured she could push him through the last partial MB, but he didn't have a position. She saw the option of a project instead of the time and asked me about it. I have no authority so assign such projects and referred her to the SM.

He was assigned to inventory all the equipment in the scout shed, and them make a checkout sheet so we can track who has equipment and make sure it all gets returned. I know he spent some time in the shed, and asked about how to make the check-out sheet. I've never seen a check-out sheet nor a copy of the inventory list, but I know he received his rank advancement.
I've only seen the project option done once in my many years of scouting.

Sounds like this was the job of the troop QM. Did he lead the inventory or do it himself?



Thanks so far. We have 3 examples of interpretation of the requirement big enough to drive a truck through. One with leadership, one with poor to none and one unknown.

One other I heard of was that the scout was assigned to be the leader of the Troop's Philmont crew for the entire time.

[Fibonacci]

While a Star Scout, serve actively 6 months in one or more of the positions of responsibility or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop.

I have assumed, perhaps erroneously, that regardless of leadership duty (position or project) that the Scout needed to serve in this role for six months. Am I wrong? Can a Scout spend five months "active in your troop and patrol" and then arrange for a one month leadership project, then complete both at the end of his six months in that rank? That seems fairly lightweight and not up to the spirit of the requirement.

[scoutaholic]

While a Star Scout, serve actively 6 months in one or more of the positions of responsibility or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop.

I have assumed, perhaps erroneously, that regardless of leadership duty (position or project) that the Scout needed to serve in this role for six months. Am I wrong? Can a Scout spend five months "active in your troop and patrol" and then arrange for a one month leadership project, then complete both at the end of his six months in that rank? That seems fairly lightweight and not up to the spirit of the requirement.

The requirement doesn't mention duration of the project. It looks like it can be in-leui-of the 6 months in a position.

If the SM assigns them a leadership project that takes 10 minutes and the boy does it satisfactorily, then he has filled the requirement. (I would hope the SM assigns a project more involved than that, but the time in the project is not relevant to the leadership performed.)

I agree that this does leave it open to not filling the spirit of the requirement. Hopefully the SM will only assign and sign-off projects that do fulfill the spirit of the requirement (leadership experience). (The example I mentioned above probably would not have filled the requirement if I were SM.)

[smtroop168]

While a Star Scout, serve actively 6 months in one or more of the positions of responsibility or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop.

I have assumed, perhaps erroneously, that regardless of leadership duty (position or project) that the Scout needed to serve in this role for six months. Am I wrong? Can a Scout spend five months "active in your troop and patrol" and then arrange for a one month leadership project, then complete both at the end of his six months in that rank? That seems fairly lightweight and not up to the spirit of the requirement.

Negatory Big Ben....no time is required. Can't add to the requirement. Still need to "active" in the troop for 4 and 6 months.

[Cowboy]

I have only been active (ha ha great term) in Boy Scouts for 7 years (Cubs for 7 before that) but in my time, our SM's have never assigned a project in lieu of a POS. Maybe I am naive, but it has been our group decision that this option is never necassary. There are plenty of positions listed and IMHO there is no excuse for a boy not holding one of them. I have heard many times that there are not enough positions in a Troop, but that is not true. There is a Patrol Leader for every 6-8 boys. There are eleven positions available if there is only one patrol. A boy not holding a POS is nothing more than slacking and that does not show SS. Just my opinion.

[Mrw]

Our troop has 52 boys on the roster right now. Three are Eagle and do not need a position. 12 are below first class and do not need a position, but this will be changing very soon. That leaves 37 more who potentially need POR's for their next rank. We are expecting to cross over more new boys than we drop again this spring.

Now some of these guys linger at a given level for a long time and so have filled the leadership requirement before the badges and that can free up a space for someone else to fill a position, but there is a limit to how many positions can be filled and carried out in a meaningful way.

[Quailman]

... A boy not holding a POS is nothing more than slacking and that does not show SS. Just my opinion.

In the example I gave, the boy in question had not been able to attend all the meetings during a sports season, and had missed the elections and selection of PORs. IIRC, the SM and ASM's had the idea and offered it to him, though he would have had time to get a position the next time around. He did a fine job with it, and the unit earned the award. I agree to the extent that giving this option to a boy who's looking for an easy way to advance is undesirable, but the SM should not should not summarily reject the idea.

[smtroop168]

For large troops it can be a problem to get scouts PORs so my guess is that's why the option exists.

MRW could have 25 Instructors I guess but how do you manage that where they actually perform the POR duties for the time period required?

[scoutaholic]

Our troop has 52 boys on the roster right now. Three are Eagle and do not need a position. 12 are below first class and do not need a position, but this will be changing very soon. That leaves 37 more who potentially need POR's for their next rank. We are expecting to cross over more new boys than we drop again this spring.

Now some of these guys linger at a given level for a long time and so have filled the leadership requirement before the badges and that can free up a space for someone else to fill a position, but there is a limit to how many positions can be filled and carried out in a meaningful way.

SPL, ASPL, TG, OARep, Scribe, Librarian, Historian, QM, Bugler, Chaplains Aid, Instructor - 11 positions
52 boys would be 8 patrols of 8-9 boys each - 8 (PL) positions

In a troop that size, ASPL, TG, Scribe, QM, Bugler, and Instructor could have at least 2 assigned to each postition. Some of those could probably work with 1 for each of the 8 patrols (and one over the . You can have instructors that specialize in many different subjects.
A troop with 50+ boys must have several dens of boys who are looking to grow-up into the troop. Each den should have at-least-one Den Chief.
How many boys do you have doing assignments as JASM.

That should be enough to cover the 40 boys above 1st Class.

The 12 boys below 1st Class don't need a position from the qualifying list for advancement, but they should all have a position as well. 8 of them can be APL. The other 4 could be grubmaster, songleader, cheermaster, webmaster, etc, etc, etc. There is no end to the jobs that they could be assigned. A position not on the advancement qualifying list is a good place to start learning leadership earlier.

I believe every boy should have a position. He should know what that job is, should be trained to do it, and should have regular help (maybe in monthly SM Conferences, maybe an assigned ASM, maybe an assigned JASM, etc.) to set goals and improve in his leadership effectiveness.

As far as the question of a project in-lieu-of the time in position, I'm not sure it should ever be necessary. If such a project is assigned, it should be one that helps the boy to grow in his leadership abilities just like the POR would have done.