Advice -- Parental involvement in The Project

[ronin718]

With our son now at T-minus two Eagle MBs away from that requirement being fulfilled, we're starting to turn our focus towards the Eagle Project. My wife was asking me what the role of the parent is in the process, and how much involvement is permitted/acceptable. Considering the sensitivity of some members of the Troop leadership regarding our active facilitation in our son's advancements (he earned Life before he hit 12.5 y/o), we're trying to not overstep any perceived boundaries.

With this said, I'm coming to the wisdom here for insight. Please advise on what you see as the parental role in The Project, to include any allowable assistance that the boy may require that the parents can provide. Thanks.

[RWSmith]

Considering the sensitivity of some members of the Troop leadership regarding our active facilitation in our son's advancements (he earned Life before he hit 12.5 y/o), we're trying to not overstep any perceived boundaries.

Uh, too late there. Those who you are concerned about are already there. What I'm saying is, unless you and your spouse both take a long vacation (like out of the country), it's not going to matter what you do, they will find something seriously wrong with any of your parental involvement. Don't get me wrong, I'm on your side. Really.

I suggest you try this... Publicly, be nothing nothing more than a hired hand, i.e., manual labor... Wait to be told what to do.

No mental labor of any kind! That will get you and your son burned at the stake.

However, when you're all at home, then be the parents you already are... mentor, counsel, guide your son. The key is leadership; whenever your son is in front of others (that would include telephone/emails), he must be in charge. That's it.

[Quailman]

Some here may tell you not to get involved at all. If you start helping or giving advice it's too hard to stop. Here's some ways I think you can contribute:

Let him use the home phone to make calls, and perhaps the home computer to look stuff up and send/receive e-mails.

Drive him places he needs to go that are too far to walk or ride a bike.

Also, sign several blank checks and give them to him. He'll probably need these to purchase materials.

[FieldSports]

My guidance to any adult or leader is; since it is his "leadership" project, you should only be involved to the extent that he requests your help. Remember it demonstrates his ability to lead a project from the beginning to the end. Be very prudent with your involvement and make him grow as a young man.

I have often told my son to go ask other people for the help, when I was capable and skilled in what he needed. However, he needed to learn to ask and get cooperation from a larger group of youth and adults. It took a much longer time for him to complete (over a year), but he is a better man for it.

There will be those who will tell you to have absolutely no involvement. Ignore them. I gave my son the same time and committment I would give any Scout working on an Eagle project. So, do be involved, just make a double effort to not appear to be "actively facilitating" him.

[cballman]

Give him all the help he needs but caution him that when the project actully takes place then is when you need to stand aside and let him lead. If another person ask you what needs to be done now then direct them toward your son. I helped my son gather tools, materials and set a lot of things up. My wife helped direct him with the writeups. She also help gather materials and be there to keep me from ripping his head off . He planned and had things ready to tell people what to do and where to go on the day of the project. I pretty much stood behind my truck and handed out tools and supplies. Only when the chainsaw was needed is when I got to do something destructive . That is where people would ask me what needed to be don then I sent them to him. Just make sure he knows what needs to be done that day and guide him on making a list. Then delegating to others seems to be the hardest part that I had to let him do. Yes it is rough but with guidance he can do it and when he gets finished he can be very proud of what he accomplished.

[RMM]

Have you son work with another adult as the project advisor. Your son should receive all direct supervision from this other adult. If the project has diagrams, do not assit you son to make the plans "more presentable." The hardest thing I have had to do is convey the message to a scout that I have major concerns with who did the project. Have the scout go to the Eagle BOR and have the Eagle award turned down. Then work with the Scout to come up with another project or process the appeal to the Council.

[Cowboy]

Yep, what they all said. The hardest part of being a loving caring parent is taking a step back and letting your son (that is all I have, no daughters, thank the lord) take control and make MISTAKES. That being said: Publicly and privately act the same. It is much easier that way. Otherwise you will find yourself slipping into "protector" role too easily. This is also a test for you. The older the boy is, the easier (not easy, just easier) it will be for you as he is already stepping out on his own anyway. For his Eagle project you should take the role of underling. Make him come to you for anything that he wants or needs. Do not volunteer. Let him know that you are and always will be there for him, but he is now responsible for asking for help. Direct him to other people when possible. My son wanted me to tell him who to use, but I made him think it through for himself. He knew everyone that I had worked with over the years, and he could remember who they are. I did tell him that he can use my name to pave the way, as many of the people may not remember him, but it was his baby.

[smtroop168]

With our son now at T-minus two Eagle MBs away from that requirement being fulfilled, we're starting to turn our focus towards the Eagle Project. My wife was asking me what the role of the parent is in the process, and how much involvement is permitted/acceptable. Considering the sensitivity of some members of the Troop leadership regarding our active facilitation in our son's advancements (he earned Life before he hit 12.5 y/o), we're trying to not overstep any perceived boundaries.

Two areas in your wording that raise alarms:
1) We're starting to turn our focus.....
2) our active facilitation in our son's advancements

Your parental involvement needs to be tempered with regard to HIS project. I recommend you attend a Life-to-Eagle training session so you understand the process but then back away to a "Help if and only if asked" role. Best if he has a separate Eagle advisor. He could run some ideas by you and given his age, you will need to haul him around for meetings with his sponsor, project approvers etc. but both of you keep a distance. Do not turn this into a "Me and My Dad" project.

[Bill Pitcher]

Yup, as everyone has mentioned, I think you get the idea. "Our focus" should be HIS focus. If you and your wife do help, it should ONLY be as a helper. He must understand that he is the job's project manager and needs to lead. If there is a problem, he may want to pull you aside and ask for advice. But in front of his work crew, HE must show the leadership. NOT YOU GUYS! All of this said, Good Luck, sit back, and enjoy the memories. He will be a different, grown up, confident young man when it's over. Remember, lots of kids that graduate from high school NEVER get the opportunity to plan, organize and lead a project like this. Keep us informed as to how it went.

[Quailman]

This discussion reminds me of a project in our troop. A scout was helping at a project being led by a capable young man. The helper said "I helped at an Eagle Project yesterday evening also." When I asked whose, he said, "I thought it was {scout A}, but {Scout B}'s mother was giving most of the directions, so it must have been his." All the labor had been lined up through {scout A}'s mother (SM's wife) for {scout B}, who's mother provided the leadership. They knew better than to call me.

RMM's advice to have your son work with another adult as the project advisor is priceless. Just as I tell boys "Go ask your patrol leader." when they come to me with a question that I shouldn't answer, you can say "Ask your project advisor."

[wagionvigil]

With our son now at T-minus two Eagle MBs away from that requirement being fulfilled, we're starting to turn our focus towards the Eagle Project. My wife was asking me what the role of the parent is in the process, and how much involvement is permitted/acceptable. Considering the sensitivity of some members of the Troop leadership regarding our active facilitation in our son's advancements (he earned Life before he hit 12.5 y/o), we're trying to not overstep any perceived boundaries.

With this said, I'm coming to the wisdom here for insight. Please advise on what you see as the parental role in The Project, to include any allowable assistance that the boy may require that the parents can provide. Thanks.

I am curious as to why the Project waited until the Merit Badges are finished? The project should be started immediately after the Life BOR. Ronin718 please tell us why the wait?

[Mrw]

as far as how to help, I don't have anything else to add.

As to why the project was not started immediately after the Life BOR, very few of our boys do it that way, regardless of how we encourage them to get it going.

[AquilaNegra2]

#1 is working on his Eagle Project right now. I'm his sounding board. He makes the decisions, but that doesn't mean others can't give suggestions. Several people, including his parents, have made them. Some he's used, some he hasn't. He's dictated letters to his sister, who writes much better than he does. She verbally edits as they go along. He's asked for an adult to be with him when he talks to the benefiting agency, in case he forgets something. The Scout doesn't have to do it all, only to be LEADING the project. Bouncing ideas off others, having someone proofread and check his work, and delegating are all parts of that leadership.

[wagionvigil]

#1 is working on his Eagle Project right now. I'm his sounding board. He makes the decisions, but that doesn't mean others can't give suggestions. Several people, including his parents, have made them. Some he's used, some he hasn't. He's dictated letters to his sister, who writes much better than he does. She verbally edits as they go along. He's asked for an adult to be with him when he talks to the benefiting agency, in case he forgets something. The Scout doesn't have to do it all, only to be LEADING the project. Bouncing ideas off others, having someone proofread and check his work, and delegating are all parts of that leadership.

This is the way it should be. Your son is making the right decisions in asking for help. His job is to Plan and give leadership. No where does it say he must do all the work. He should document every minute that these helpers do along with his.This starts when he says "lets plan a project".

[fritz1255]

Make sure that the project is one that can be completed in a reasonable period of time without lots of parental involvement. We've had trouble with that in our Troop - scope was way too ambitious and lots of tasks that could only be completed by adults (power tools, heavy electric wiring, etc).

[ronin718]

With our son now at T-minus two Eagle MBs away from that requirement being fulfilled, we're starting to turn our focus towards the Eagle Project. My wife was asking me what the role of the parent is in the process, and how much involvement is permitted/acceptable. Considering the sensitivity of some members of the Troop leadership regarding our active facilitation in our son's advancements (he earned Life before he hit 12.5 y/o), we're trying to not overstep any perceived boundaries.

Two areas in your wording that raise alarms:
1) We're starting to turn our focus.....
2) our active facilitation in our son's advancements

Your parental involvement needs to be tempered with regard to HIS project.

To start with, the term our refers to three people here... Me, my wife, and our son. We're starting to turn our focus to the project because there are very few Eagle Scouts out there who earned their Eagles without support from their parents. Is this not a valid statement? It is going to be our focus because, as you said, his age is going to require our involvement. It is going to be our focus because he is an only child, and his activities in this project is going to affect the schedule of the entire household. It is not our (me and my wife) intention to run this show. As a fully trained ASM, I understand the "rules" regarding this project. However, as a parent, I also recognize that there are aspects that we will be permitted to assist in. This is why I came to the board, to learn where those boundaries are.

As for our active facilitation in our son's advancements, smtroop168 has obviously misconstrued this statement to mean that we have driven the advancement process. What our active facilitation means is we've taken full advantage of the opportunities the troop has provided through camping and other activities. We planned our family schedule to allow our son to participate in any and all activities that he wanted to attend. We made sure to get our son to his meetings in a timely manner to allow him to meet with other ASMs and/or MBCs to pass off requirements. I stayed aware of District and Council events where our son could earn other MBs if he wanted to. And we allowed additional nights of the week for him to serve as a Den Chief, attend Roundtable, and assist with District Cub events in association with his Den Chief responsibilities.

I agree with the separate Eagle Advisor. Our son has been told he'll need to coordinate with the Troop's Eagle Counselor to get the process going, and that he'll need to make that appointment. As I said, we're not looking to drive this process, we just want to know what is acceptable parental involvement.

[ronin718]

I am curious as to why the Project waited until the Merit Badges are finished? The project should be started immediately after the Life BOR. Ronin718 please tell us why the wait?

Part of the reason is the aforementioned sensitivity of Troop leadership. The troop currently has 17 Life Scouts, 16 of which are over the age of 14. Anytime that I've mentioned our son in the same context as the older boys, I've been gently and backhandedly reminded that our son has "plenty of time" remaining. I've received this treatment ever since he earned First Class. I get the sense that our son is not going to receive the same emphasis or support that the older boys will receive in initiating The Project. As it is, he can't seem to get the Troop leadership (SPL or SM) to "give" him a leadership role to fulfill that requirement, and he's made multiple requests to be allowed to assume currently empty positions.

Another reason is educational and experience. The two remaining MBs are Personal Mgmt and Cit in the Community. As I'm sure most of you know, these require a lot of work. There are requirements in those MBs that our son will need to apply to the Project process. By waiting for these MBs to be completed before starting on the project, he'll be gaining skills that are directly attributable to aspects of The Project.

Finally, there's the time factor. Our son is taking a full slate of Honors courses in school, and there's lots of homework that must be done. He also takes piano lessons and plays the trumpet in the school band, so he needs practice time for both of those instruments. He is the DQP (LDS folks will understand that term), which essentially makes him the SPL for the LDS troop in our ward. Despite the fact that the LDS troop doesn't function, he still has various responsibilities to fulfill for that group. With all these things on his plate, we don't think it advisable that he take on a project of such magnitude at this time.

Besides, if he gets the MBs done, then it eliminates the option of "go finish that requirement". Takes a card out of the Obstructionist's deck.

[smtroop168]

With our son now at T-minus two Eagle MBs away from that requirement being fulfilled, we're starting to turn our focus towards the Eagle Project. My wife was asking me what the role of the parent is in the process, and how much involvement is permitted/acceptable. Considering the sensitivity of some members of the Troop leadership regarding our active facilitation in our son's advancements (he earned Life before he hit 12.5 y/o), we're trying to not overstep any perceived boundaries.

Two areas in your wording that raise alarms:
1) We're starting to turn our focus.....
2) our active facilitation in our son's advancements

Your parental involvement needs to be tempered with regard to HIS project.

To start with, the term our refers to three people here... Me, my wife, and our son. We're starting to turn our focus to the project because there are very few Eagle Scouts out there who earned their Eagles without support from their parents. Is this not a valid statement? It is going to be our focus because, as you said, his age is going to require our involvement. It is going to be our focus because he is an only child, and his activities in this project is going to affect the schedule of the entire household. It is not our (me and my wife) intention to run this show. As a fully trained ASM, I understand the "rules" regarding this project. However, as a parent, I also recognize that there are aspects that we will be permitted to assist in. This is why I came to the board, to learn where those boundaries are.

As for our active facilitation in our son's advancements, smtroop168 has obviously misconstrued this statement to mean that we have driven the advancement process. What our active facilitation means is we've taken full advantage of the opportunities the troop has provided through camping and other activities. We planned our family schedule to allow our son to participate in any and all activities that he wanted to attend. We made sure to get our son to his meetings in a timely manner to allow him to meet with other ASMs and/or MBCs to pass off requirements. I stayed aware of District and Council events where our son could earn other MBs if he wanted to. And we allowed additional nights of the week for him to serve as a Den Chief, attend Roundtable, and assist with District Cub events in association with his Den Chief responsibilities.

I agree with the separate Eagle Advisor. Our son has been told he'll need to coordinate with the Troop's Eagle Counselor to get the process going, and that he'll need to make that appointment. As I said, we're not looking to drive this process, we just want to know what is acceptable parental involvement.

I don't disagree about Eagle candidates needing support from their parents and it's great when parents are involved but not overinvolved as we have read in other posts. My "construing" was based on your statement "Considering the sensitivity of some members of the Troop leadership regarding our active facilitation in our son's advancements (he earned Life before he hit 12.5 y/o), we're trying to not overstep any perceived boundaries." You obviously have concerns about this or you would not have asked. If you've read the rules regarding Eagle Projects, then you have a pretty good idea where the boundry should be. Stand back and watch him learn. It's more fun than hovering and everyone wins. My definition of acceptable parental involvement is whatever the Eagle Candidate tells you to do within the execution of planning or execution. If they tell you they need to have you drive them to Lowe's so they can price materials...okay. If they want you to sit in the back of the room on meetings and phone calls...okay. But if they ask you to type their project plan, politely decline. I tell my guys it's the one chance you get to boss your parents around but after your project you might need to sharpen your Cooking skills 'cause you're not gonna be fed anytime soon.

[ronin718]

I don't disagree about Eagle candidates needing support from their parents and it's great when parents are involved but not overinvolved as we have read in other posts. My "construing" was based on your statement "Considering the sensitivity of some members of the Troop leadership regarding our active facilitation in our son's advancements (he earned Life before he hit 12.5 y/o), we're trying to not overstep any perceived boundaries." You obviously have concerns about this or you would not have asked. If you've read the rules regarding Eagle Projects, then you have a pretty good idea where the boundry should be. Stand back and watch him learn. It's more fun than hovering and everyone wins. My definition of acceptable parental involvement is whatever the Eagle Candidate tells you to do within the execution of planning or execution. If they tell you they need to have you drive them to Lowe's so they can price materials...okay. If they want you to sit in the back of the room on meetings and phone calls...okay. But if they ask you to type their project plan, politely decline. I tell my guys it's the one chance you get to boss your parents around but after your project you might need to sharpen your Cooking skills 'cause you're not gonna be fed anytime soon.

Yep, the sensitivity factor is high. Tired of being made to feel "bad" about my son's advancements. Sounds like we're in agreement that this is the boy's project. And no, I have no intention of being his secretary. I don't even do that at work.

[smtroop168]

Yep, the sensitivity factor is high. Tired of being made to feel "bad" about my son's advancements.

Saddest thing I heard.

I have seen a number of "Me and My Dad" projects. Unfortunately the last 2 were from LDS scouts. That's why I recommend stepping back.

What ideas does he have?