Gambling

[West]

You're assumeing relaxing and fun are the same thing. There were times in my life where I was compleatly burned out from to much fun.

I guess my thoughts on the matter are that sometimes as adults we push the kids to hard to always be accomplishing something. When I was the Advisor for a Venture while attending grad school we'd frequently do week long backpacking trips that started as soon as finals were over. Or other smaller trips during weekends in the middle of the term. That's not the time to push any of these 'kids' (most were collage kids and so 18-20 years old) to be productive all the time. Typically they'd get up make breakfast, clean up the site (includeing whatever was left by previous groups). and get moveing plenty early (they were well trained in that) take their time hikeing the 10-15 miles or doing whatever paddleing the day required. When we got to camp they'd make small improvements, if there was a litter problem from prevous groups they'd clean it up. Then they'd spend the rest of the time sitting around and talking or playing cards (no gambeling). Productive? Maybe not. But it was good for letting the kids get to know each other. And there is no doubt they needed the chance to unwind a bit.

With younger kids it's probably good to keep them busy doing things that matter, but as they get older and have done more in scouting sometimes you need to let them go a bit.

[Woodbadgegirl]

I'm almost 40 years old and learned to play Poker for the very first time at this past year's summer camp. The day was winding down, it was almost time for bed and some of the 12-13 year olds asked me to play. We had a good time and didn't do any betting. It was a nice way for an adult leader to interact with them and get to know them better. I see nothing wrong with playing cards, especially when your mind needs some settling down right before bed.

[hacimsaalk]

why cant you gamble. i see nothing wrong with it, we do it sometimes

[wagionvigil]

Plain and simple it is against BSA Policy! Ther is no leeway on this. If you are caught gambling at the NJ you are removed immediately. What does that mean? You are taken by MP's to a holding area, Someone gets all of your belongings and the MP's pick them up and then you wait for your parents. It does not matter where you are from. Gonzo!

[Woodbadgegirl]

You are taken by MP's to a holding area, Someone gets all of your belongings and the MP's pick them up and then you wait for your parents. It does not matter where you are from. Gonzo!

Wowzers! That's pretty intense!

I grew up Nazarene so we were told we were going to hell if we gambled. I still haven't bought that first Lotto ticket, too scared too! I see the BSA's stance on Gambling. It's very addictive.

[West]

Scouting is for promoteing values. Gambeling is not a value that should be promoted.

[BM_Crawford]

I dont see anything wrong with playing cards ONCE IN A WHILE but never to actually gamble.

[Rick Tyler]

I bet you two to one that this thread picks up at least five more posts.

[BM_Crawford]

lol, that may very well be true!

[Woodbadgegirl]

Scouting is for promoteing values. Gambeling is not a value that should be promoted.

AMEN!!!!!

I dont see anything wrong with playing cards ONCE IN A WHILE but never to actually gamble.

Brian, glad to see you posting! I totally agree with you.

[evmori]

Hey Rick, can I get a piece of that action?

[RWSmith]

Several points, so I’ll try to be brief…

1. I think y'all have been dancing around the real issue. At the very least, this thread has become a discussion of “apples and oranges.” Is this a moral question? Yes. Is this a legal question? Yes, again. So, in this case, both apply… but, separately.

2. We have a serious age gap here… If you’re an adult reading this, you’ll recall a time when gambling was legal only in the Nevada desert. If you’re a Gen-Xer, you’re growing up (or very recently grew up) in a time where 48 states have since legalized some form of gambling. And let’s not even discuss internet, (or online, or off-shore) gambling.

3. Though many a state’s Constitutions have been amended to permit legalized gambling, it is usually a form of state-sanctioned, state-regulated “gaming,” such as the lottery, which, I might add, is legal for adults only, not minors. The reason why the vast majority of new casinos that have popped up, in recent years, on Indian Reservations or maritime vessels, have been to circumvent a nearby state’s Constitution. So, aside from these "legal" forms of gambling (gaming), it’s almost always otherwise considered illegal -- sometimes by General Statute, sometimes by the state’s Constitution. So, in my mind, if an adult Scouter were to be seen purchasing even so much as a single, lowly Lottery ticket, while wearing the Scout uniform, it would be no more acceptable than purchasing or consumption of alcohol or tobacco products, because... we adults must remember that, when we wear the uniform, we represent the youth of our organization.

4. Now, in order for casual gambling (that is, outside of the previously discussed state-sanctioned, state-regulated enterprises) to be considered "gambling," requires that a substantive wager can be won by some means of chance. Without those two things, it's just a game. Poker without a "real" wager ain't no different than Go Fish. Otherwise, we could not play Billiards because people bet large sums of money on 9-Ball, nor could we ride horses because people bet on the ponies all the time, nor could my retirement account be legal because the market is surely a game of chance. So, although I personally frown upon the use of playing cards on Scouting trips, particularly Summer Camp, a bunch of 14 year olds playing Poker for matchsticks is not, I repeat for all my formerly Baptist brethren, NOT, gambling. In fact, it’s no different than playing Monopoly with play money. Conversely, if I caught Scouts playing Poker for money, or making any sort of monetary wager for that matter, I’d have to put a stop to that.

On more thing, the jokes y'all are cracking?... hilarious.

[BM_Crawford]

Yea I agree with all of that lol.

[troop173fl]

i think it should be allowed up to a certain point... me and my friends gamble all the time, at school, on the bus, on campouts, etc. But we never bet serious money. Betting little money, like coins and such, is fine. But if kids start gambling like tens and twenties, then it gets to be a problem (this happened at camp daniel boone over the summer). Also, like some people have said, its kind of a good thing for male bonding.

[t305spl]

NO not even a cent is ok. Its one thing for them to be gambling matches but any type of money is wrong. A ceratin point is like acorns and matches not money. Male bonding can happen in other ways gambling is not a good thing.
What rank are you and whats your POR?

[BM_Crawford]

NO not even a cent is ok. Its one thing for them to be gambling matches but any type of money is wrong. A ceratin point is like acorns and matches not money. Male bonding can happen in other ways gambling is not a good thing.
What rank are you and whats your POR?

I have to agree with this. Gambling in my opinion isnt a very good moral value to teach. My uncle is always gambling and now they are short of money. It always comes back to you.

[West]

i think it should be allowed up to a certain point... me and my friends gamble all the time, at school, on the bus, on campouts, etc. But we never bet serious money. Betting little money, like coins and such, is fine. But if kids start gambling like tens and twenties, then it gets to be a problem (this happened at camp daniel boone over the summer). Also, like some people have said, its kind of a good thing for male bonding.

Money, no. Not even small value. Candy, still no. Matchsticks, ok I guess. But no gambeling at all would be better.

Lets put it this way, at what point do you draw the line, and how do you prevent blurring of the line? I guy could bet $500 and not use anything but pennies if he wanted to.

[commish3]

I think it is imortant to set some definitions in a conversation such as this. The words gamble and poker seem to be inseparable here. Poker is a card game. Gambling is the exchange of money or property that is wagered on the probability of an outcome.

You can play poker and not exchange money or property and it is just another card game. No harm no foul.

But gambling is not only illegal in most States it is not a "thrifty" thing to do, and so has no place in Scouting.

If the ownership of the items or currency being wagered is not exchanged by the parties at play then no gambling has occured.

Just a different point of view.

[West]

Yep, on the rare occasion we ever played poker it was for nothing, not even sticks.

[riverwalk]

Hmmm, a good question I suppose, but I think most would say it doesn't have a place in our activities, though I understand some things are done during campsite time. Perhaps it's a little like "jam-boxes", spray cans, sheath knives.......whatever. If it doesn't have an official place in the Program's objectives or printed materials, why let it get out of hand? It even used to be allowed to do a Hangman's noose in Scouts, as another knot to tie, until that was disallowed (long ago, in a galaxy far away).