Troop Committee Issues

[biglou]

OK,

I know I might upset some people here but I could really use some advice. I am going to be completing my 3rd year as Scoutmaster of my Troop in May 2009. I have been dealing with some issues with my Troop Committee ever since I have taken over. Alot of it has to do with the Troop Committee not following rules as set forth by the BSA.

Here are some examples. Last July 4th, my community has an annual celebration. They neglect to fill out the required form for fundraising. Needless to say, another troop from a neighboring community comes in and does their thing too.

Advancement. We had a kid who became an Eagle Scout and cannot swim. They waived the requirements on their own without seeking approval from the National Council. Needless to say, I refused to sign his Eagle Scout application and must add now that I am glad I did. But unfortunately, he still made Eagle. Tonight, I recieved an e-mail from a Committee Member. I am copying the e-mail for everyone to read and editing names. " These boys are presenting their Eagle Scout Projects to Committee??? I do not remember them bringing their Eagle Scout Books up to discuss their projects to get approved by the Eagle Scout Coordinator...Committee Member So and So. I was under the impression that the boys had to contact So and So to discuss their projects and then have him and only him approve their projects and after that was done then the boys could present their projects to the rest of Committee."

Committee Meeting via e-mail. The Troop Committee Chairman has sent out notices via e-mail and I have quite a lengthy file on my computer and so does one of my Assistants. He has more than I do because my computer keeps crashing. Needless to say that the Troop Committee does not support or make attempts to help me or the other Scoutmasters out. I am the one always running to the Scout Office, doing the jobs of the Troop Advancement Chairman and Camping chairman because nobody is appointed to that job. I have recruited 3 people so far to help out and had I not recruited them, my life would be even more complicated than what it is. Maybe I should add that some of them don't even come such as the Troop Committee Chairman. I usually try to send them an e-mail prior to each Committee Meeting to let them know who would be requesting a Board of Review.

I can go on and on about this. I am starting to get sick and tired of this and am starting to say the heck with it. Problem is, I will not walk away from the boys of the Troop. When I started as Scoutmaster, my troop's weekly attendance was 5 if we were lucky. Troop 40 is now a boy led Troop and we have on average 15 members attending on a regular basis. Some of the boys who do not show are active in sports, but they come when they are able to which is fine with me. This Troop has grown from when I took over and it is not because of me. It is because the boys wanted the change from being yelled at and tying knots to actually learning about a skills or hobbies, Wilderness Survival, Camping, Hiking and Motorboating to say the least. We have a calender of events that they boys put together and we had at least 9 complete Troop Leader Training. I am just frustrated and could use some advice I guess.

[biglou]

PS I know the question is going to be asked about getting the Unit Commissioner involved. FYI, we do not have one. I have gone to the Office and asked about that and they have no idea. Needless to say I quit asking. The Chartered Organization Rep is not going to do anything about it because he does not like conflict and prefers to keep it that way. I have talked with the Pastor of my church who is the Institutional Rep. I am not sure what her feelings are at this point. She seems very supportive of me but I am not sure. Wagionvigil, she used to be the Chaplain at your camp, Pastor Marge.

[scoutaholic]

...Last July 4th, my community has an annual celebration. They neglect to fill out the required form for fundraising. Needless to say, another troop from a neighboring community comes in and does their thing too.

I wouldn't expect that fundraising paperwork guarantees you exclusivity. Just council approval. Many communities have more than one scouting unit, and all should be able to coexist in your community.
If you want scouts from neighboring communities excluded, then you need to work that out with the organizers of the celebration events.

...We had a kid who became an Eagle Scout and cannot swim. They waived the requirements on their own without seeking approval from the National Council. Needless to say, I refused to sign his Eagle Scout application and must add now that I am glad I did. But unfortunately, he still made Eagle.

Troop committee can't waive requirements. There should have been a district/council advancement person on the board. Did you talk with him/her about this? Someone should have been asking why a boy made it to Eagle Board with no SM signature.

...Tonight, I recieved an e-mail from a Committee Member. I am copying the e-mail for everyone to read and editing names. " These boys are presenting their Eagle Scout Projects to Committee??? I do not remember them bringing their Eagle Scout Books up to discuss their projects to get approved by the Eagle Scout Coordinator...Committee Member So and So. I was under the impression that the boys had to contact So and So to discuss their projects and then have him and only him approve their projects and after that was done then the boys could present their projects to the rest of Committee."

There are 4 approval signatures required. SM, Committee Chairman, Organization benefitting from the Project, and District/Council advancement committee member.
If the Unit Committee Chairman has designated So and So to be the advancement person who approves the projects, then that is fine, but the rest of the committee doesn't have to approve the project.
So and So is only one of the 4 signatures required before starting the actual project work.

...Needless to say that the Troop Committee does not support or make attempts to help me or the other Scoutmasters out. I am the one always running to the Scout Office, doing the jobs of the Troop Advancement Chairman and Camping chairman because nobody is appointed to that job. I have recruited 3 people so far to help out and had I not recruited them, my life would be even more complicated than what it is. Maybe I should add that some of them don't even come such as the Troop Committee Chairman. I usually try to send them an e-mail prior to each Committee Meeting to let them know who would be requesting a Board of Review.

It sounds like you need someone on the committe who is willing to do their job. Maybe time for a new committee chairman? Maybe some training for them all so they know what their job is? Maybe some accountability for getting their jobs done?

I feel your pain on some of these issues. I've also had committee chairmen and members who wouldn't do thier jobs. Sometimes I just knew that the job wouldn't get done unless I did it. Sometimes I had to let go and let the committee fail so they would see what happens. (Not that they changed after that.)

[biglou]

Thanks for your response there. A member of the Council Advancement Committee was there. I don't think he understood what was going on and I also feel that he was railroaded by my Troop Committee.

As for the current Troop Committee Chairman, his replacement is long overdue. He likes to have "Committee Meetings" via e-mail so to speak. Personally it is a waste of my time because nothing gets done. Needless to say when the Troop Committee does meet, I am glad I only have to stay 30 minutes into it. I asked the Troop Committee if we could move the meetings to another day and basically I was told that this is when they were going to meet. The reason I asked to move the meeting so I could attend the whole thing without having to leave and be able to make suggestions and recommendations. They meet a 1/2 hr before the Troop has it's meetings. It is more of a convienience thing for them. They don't want to have to come to another meeting. Gee, I wish I could say that. I am only a Volunteer Firefighter and try to be active in other organizations as time permits.

The Troop had a Scoutmaster 5 years ago that was doing pretty much the same thing I am doing. They, meaning the Troop Committee, did not like her. They ran her into the ground until she quit. She had all good intentions of running the Troop as a Troop should be ran using the Patrol Method, but the powers that be did not like it. The Scoutmaster who replaced her the boys absolutely dispised. All he would do was yell at them at meetings and tell them to tie knots. At campouts all he would do was yell at them to behave or he would throw them into the pond. I am very thankful to have replaced him!

The supposed Eagle Scout Adancement Coordinator has not shown up to a single Scout meeting last year to help these boys with their projects. His job is supposed to be advising the boys and helping them write up their projects. He has not done that at all. He doesn't even understand "The 12 Steps from Life to Eagle". I had to show him where to find where it was printed and even handed him a copy. He has not been doing the job he agreed to and it is very upsetting.

I will say that Brockway Troop 40 is a boy-led Troop and we are using the Patrol Method. Nine of the boys have completed Troop Leader Training the other night and we will have another night to get the rest of the boy leaders "Trained". Basically what I and the other ASMs do at a meeting, is step in when we have to or answer a question or help with a skill now and then. The boy leadership knows they are responsible for planning the meetings and campout program and they "get-r-done". If you were to see my Scouts, you would be impressed with them.

[Mrw]

So how invested in the troop is the committee chair? Does he have a boy in the troop? If not, maybe suggesting to him that he could help even more if he gave up the troop position to become the unit commissioner might get him out of your hair.

Our troop (54 on the roster and over 40 regularly active) does not have an Eagle mentor so to speak. There are a handful of us who are willing to work with the boys and answer questions for them. The boys do not ever present their projects to our whole committee for approval.

Our troop does have most of the committee meetings during troop meetings, with the SM stopping in at some point for a Q & A session if we have any for him or he has any for us. Honestly though, most of the committee hangs around for most scout meetings, so things get handled as they come up. All but two of us have boys in the troop and it is easier to stay rather than come back in an hour to pick them up. The other benefit of having the committee meetings during the troop meetings is that is makes us more accessible to the boys if there is something we need their input on.

The only other thing I can suggest is to get some training for the committee members so they can understand what they are supposed to be doing. Or to get new parents signed up on the committee as their boys join so they can start to out-number the old guard and the old ones will drop away.

[biglou]

Thanks for everone sending e-mails. I really appreciated them and apologize for not getting back in a timely fashion. I will be responding later this week to fill people in on "As Troop 40 Turns".

[biglou]

I should have also added that yes I love being a Scoutmaster and Crew Advisor. Granted the Venture Crew needs alot of work, they are trying hard. But, as for the Troop, I cannot complain. The boys are a great bunch. It is amazing to see 16-17 year old kids getting along with the 11-12 year olds. They even figured it out to go to the same merit badges last summer and helped everyone complete their merit badges! We had only 1 boy with a partial merit badge this summer because he needed some more bike hikes for cycling. Those boys earned a total of 95 merit badges last summer! One boy who is now the SPL, just joined Scouting last November. I had to dig through 20 years of records to make sure about the record for merit badges in a summer. The previous one was 10 merit badges in a summer. Bk earned 13 or 14, which broke my record from 1988!
As my ASM Bruce says, he has never seen a bunch of kids like what we have. Bruce is a midget football coach and I pretty much lose him during August thru the end of October. During one of our many phone conversations, he said that he really missed coming to Scouts. That says alot about the boys!

[evmori]

Interesting situation. How involved is your CO? If they are involved, I would bring this up to them.

Have these people attended training? If not, tell them they have to or bye bye! You don't have to recharter them. That might be the best way to end the chaos!

[biglou]

I have not mentioned it to the Chartered Organization Rep because of his personal health issues. Plus he does not like confrontation. However, I have spoken with the Pastor of my Church and we have had many different discussions. She has told me that I am not going anywhere anytime soon. So that makes it real nice. She says I stay. Done deal!

[biglou]

I forgot to add that I have mentioned to them that they should take the training available and that it is available online. The response I got back was we have enough training thank you very much! Ok. I have gone to Camp School twice, served on Camp Staff for 10 seasons, completed both the SM and Venturing training, completed the "Train the trainer" course, and have completed Wood Badge. I still have a ton of stuff to learn and try to go to other training sessions when I can. I thought their response can be best described as poor.

[evmori]

Sounds like ya need to find a new CC to start with. Since you & the Pastor are on such good terms, you should enlist his help in resolving this problem. Remember, you don't have to recharter those you don't want to!

[smtroop168]

If the Pastor is the IH, she can tell remove any individual she wants from the program, no appeal.

My IH did this to our COR a couple of years ago. He wrote a ranting 10 page letter to the Pastor who had just taken over telling him how hosed up I was and the Council was in cahoots. He told me he didn't get through page 1 and he knew he had to go.

[biglou]

Committee Meeting tonight! I will let you all know of what has transpired.

[wagionvigil]

The IH was actually a camp chaplain a few years ago and really understands the program. I would expect she will remove those that do not wish to play nice.

[biglou]

Just got back from my Troop Committee meeting tonight with all body parts intact!!!!! I found out that the Troop Committee Chairman had resigned last week. Last week was going to be his last Committee meeting. We cancelled due to weather. The other ASMs and I are not surprised or upset about it. It was kind of a shock to me because I had no clue.

Anyhow, the Troop Committee Treasurer was prepared to read me the riot act tonight. She asked me a question as to why I did not get the receipts for her. She sent me an e-mail at 8:11 PM the night before the committee meeting asking about the grocery charges that did not add up to what I gave her. She also told me that it was my responsibility to go to the store and get the receipts. I e-mailed her back while I was working a midnight shift at 11:01 PM the night before the Committee meeting telling her I had no idea what the charges were for. I also informed her that I had turned in all of the slips and if she had lost them, she should go get the copies. She only lives 1 mile from the store versus my 7 miles. She grilled me about the Christmas Party and why we bought Soda Pop instead of using the Kool-aid. I politely told her that the ASMs, parents, and others wanted to get out of the church at a decent time and felt that the Troop can afford the $4 or less that was spent! We also told her that no other committee members were there to help. She did not like that answer. She also did not like the fact that I questioned her as to why she did not go to the grocery store and find out what was going on. That's the job of a treasurer I thought. She gave a response and I said to her she did not answer the question. She said that I did not want to hear her response. It was as simple as the Troop got charged instead of the Cub Pack. Now it is a dead issue! LOL!!! I also had my ASM Bruce pick up needed equipment at the service center. He presented the bill to the treasurer and nothing was said!!!!

The Eagle Scout projects approval issue was next. The "acting" or new CC said that we would be discussing these projects for approval. Dead issue #2. Two of the 3 boys had their projects approved and signed!!!!!!! The third did not have his project booklet with him. I will take the blame to a point that I assumed that he would be ready tonight. He was not sure if the Committee was meeting tonight and was not prepared. He still has some time left while the other 2 don't. Wobbie has 43 days left to complete and Zach has 77. These two are definitely great scouts! Zach has enlisted in the military and his goal is to become a Green Beret. I have no doubt he will. Wobbie is my technical guru. I just have him fix my technical problems with computers and he is looking to co-op at the local hospital for his shop at the Tech School.

Things have definitely taken a turn. I also possibly recruited 2 new committee members tonight from the Webelos Scouts parents crossing over next month! The boys did a bang up job running the meeting tonight and I could not be happier!

I do have one more thing to add for those who have sent e-mails or posted here. I really have appreciated the advice and words of encouragement. It helped me to get through this meeting tonight!

[evmori]

Sounds like it's getting better biglou! Stick in there! I'd bet your treasurer will bail soon. Ya might wanna get someone else lined up.

[biglou]

Done deal! I did that 8 months ago. She is already onboard. The funny thing is when we were in a Troop Committee meeting and they started talking Excel spreadsheets, the new person had a better understanding of the program than what the Treasurer did! I know she is going to be a problem, but we are going to deal with her in an appropriate way. She raised a little stink about spending $5 about the Troop record book that is printed by the BSA. She asked why I spent the money. I told her that we had several of them downstairs from years past. What was the problem? To be honest, she does not want to have to write checks or do her job. It is starting to feel that the Troop Account belongs to her and not the boys!

[smtroop168]

It is starting to feel that the Troop Account belongs to her and not the boys!

Time for an audit!

[biglou]

It is starting to feel that the Troop Account belongs to her and not the boys!

Time for an audit!

Duly noted. Never thought about that.

[evmori]

It is starting to feel that the Troop Account belongs to her and not the boys!

Time for an audit!

Duly noted. Never thought about that.

Excellent point! Call the bank & get a copy of the latest statement and get on-line access. Also, you might want to get new signature cards.