Basic Guidelines

[FrankJ]

This reminds me of the parents that insist that their child completed a requirement three years earlier. They went to a city council meeting as a Webelos Den. I wouldn't think it would count because they weren't in Boy Scouts. However, does that mean it is up to the MB counselor to accept it or not?

It is always up the MB counselor. But the requirements should be met after being a boyscout, so a trip as a webelos would not count. As a MBC in general I do not accept trips performed in the way past unless the scout can what tell he learned on the trip as it relates to the merit badge.

[evmori]

This reminds me of the parents that insist that their child completed a requirement three years earlier. They went to a city council meeting as a Webelos Den. I wouldn't think it would count because they weren't in Boy Scouts. However, does that mean it is up to the MB counselor to accept it or not?

It is always up the MB counselor. But the requirements should be met after being a boyscout, so a trip as a webelos would not count. As a MBC in general I do not accept trips performed in the way past unless the scout can what tell he learned on the trip as it relates to the merit badge.

Anything done as a Webelos doesn't count as anything for Boy Scouts. The clock starts when the application is turned in to the Troop.

[evmori]

This reminds me of the parents that insist that their child completed a requirement three years earlier. They went to a city council meeting as a Webelos Den. I wouldn't think it would count because they weren't in Boy Scouts. However, does that mean it is up to the MB counselor to accept it or not?

It is always up the MB counselor. But the requirements should be met after being a boyscout, so a trip as a webelos would not count. As a MBC in general I do not accept trips performed in the way past unless the scout can what tell he learned on the trip as it relates to the merit badge.

Anything done as a Webelos doesn't count as anything for Boy Scouts. The clock starts when the application is turned in to the Troop.

Meant to add something else.

The only way I would sign up parents like this is if they attended all the training they needed.

[wagionvigil]

"Welcome to Troop XYZ we will be glad to register you as an adult leader but you must take the training as prescribed for your position. Only "Trained leaders" are permitted to have any input in the troop and only trained leaders will attend outings the troop may take part in. Here is the application and the fee is $$$. The first required training will be YPT which may be taken online as soon as you have a membership number." In addition only leaders with outdoor leader training will camp with the troop." ANd None of your Cub Scout or Webelos Training count anymore!

[FrankJ]

Anything done as a Webelos doesn't count as anything for Boy Scouts. The clock starts when the application is turned in to the Troop.

I thought i said that.

[WeeWillie]

Page 187 of the Scout Handbook is pretty explicit. I don't see this as a reading comprehension problem, but rather an entittlement mentality problem. Unfortunately, we have parents and leaders who don't think the rules apply when the rules interfer with their goals. It doesn't say I can't prevails over "On my honor I will do my best..." or "A Scout is obedient" The two worst examples of parents ignoring the rules were both from trained ASMs who are Eagle Scouts themselves. Like I said earlier, its an entittlement mentality that is all to common today. Read "Generation Me."

Stick to your guns or you will have more problems. If this is an outside "patrol" activity then a Local Tour Permit is required.

[Mrw]

So, for this particular instance, the mom involved now seems to understand about how to earn merit badges now. She thought the boys had needed to go do this BEFORE seeing a counselor. I explained again, in person and via email, that the counselor will go over anything the boys need to know to earn the badge if they do not get it from the book in the first place.

As for the rest of this group of parents, we will spend next week's parent meeting going over it again. They will be given a one page, written sheet with the policies copied direct from the Advancement Guide as someone so kindly pasted in earlier in this thread for me (Thanks!).

Emphasis will be plaaced on the points that advancement is only one method of how we help our boys grow into productive and independent young men, and not the goal of Scouting. Emphasis will aslo be placed on the boy-directed points. We are going to explicitly state that the boy is responsible for contacting counselors and other adults whom they need to speak with regarding scout stuff.

Once this thing came up last week and I copied the committee on my response, we were all pretty amazed at how many of us have been getting questions or requests from this group of parents. None of us had realized the extent of the problem.

In addition, we had one of these kids in for a BOR last night and we emphasized independence in setting goals that worked for him.

[FrankJ]

Stick to your guns or you will have more problems. If this is an outside "patrol" activity then a Local Tour Permit is required.

So I need a tour permit to take my child to a city council meeting? I guess that is one way to insure some there has had hazardous weather training.

I do know that when the TP is required is a council thing & if you ask 4 professionals you will get at least 3 different answers on when one is needed, but this is getting a little extreme.

Keep in mind if there is energy out there to do the program, then we need to be channeling it, not discouraging it.

[smtroop168]

So I need a tour permit to take my child to a city council meeting? I guess that is one way to insure some there has had hazardous weather training.

No. I know you're being facetious. G2SS is the reference. TP are not required for patrol (it says den) activities. 2 Deep leadership is not required for patrol activities either.

[Quailman]

"Outside "Patrol" activity" means a patrol activity outside of the normal meeting place, not an activity outside of the patrol, which is how I first read it.

[evmori]

So I need a tour permit to take my child to a city council meeting? I guess that is one way to insure some there has had hazardous weather training.

No. I know you're being facetious. G2SS is the reference. TP are not required for patrol (it says den) activities. 2 Deep leadership is not required for patrol activities either.

My understanding is if the meeting takes place away from your normal meeting place, a tour permit is required.

[ThunderingWind]

"Welcome to Troop XYZ we will be glad to register you as an adult leader but you must take the training as prescribed for your position. Only "Trained leaders" are permitted to have any input in the troop and only trained leaders will attend outings the troop may take part in. Here is the application and the fee is $$$. The first required training will be YPT which may be taken online as soon as you have a membership number." In addition only leaders with outdoor leader training will camp with the troop." And NONE of your Cub Scout or Webelos Training count anymore!

While I fully support the intent of this statement, It is my understanding that Parents are always allowed to accompany thier child on outings as long as they pay as required, bring the proper equipment etc....No parent can be barred.

[wagionvigil]

Sorry you can force the YPT. No Training No input!

[smtroop168]

Here are the 2 quotes from the G2SS. I added the bold.

Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings
Two-deep leadership:
Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required. Coed overnight activities require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA.

Tour Permits
If a unit plans a trip within 500 miles of the home base, it is important that the unit obtain a local tour permit. A national tour permit is required for trips in excess of 500 miles from home or outside the continental United States. (See samples of both in the appendix.)

Tour permits have become recognized by national parks, military institutions, and other organizations as proof that a unit activity has been well planned and organized and is under capable and qualified leadership. These organizations may require the tour permit for entry.

Most short, in-town den trips of a few hours do not require a tour permit; however, it is recommended that dens obtain permission slips from parents.

[FrankJ]

My understanding is if the meeting takes place away from your normal meeting place, a tour permit is required.

Policy on this is set by council under BSA guidelines so there is variations on the theme from council to council.

A scout (or scouts since you have your buddy), or maybe a patrol working on a merit badge should not need a tour permit. If they did, you would need one for meeting with the MBC away from the normal meeting place.

I am all for tour permits for activities that need them, but I rather see training requirements rather a simple you need a tour permit every time you leave you meeting place.

Sorry for drifting off the original topic.

[wagionvigil]

Most short, in-town den trips of a few hours do not require a tour permit; however, it is recommended that dens obtain permission slips from parents.


This is for Cubs not Scouts

[alex gregory]

Most short, in-town den trips of a few hours do not require a tour permit; however, it is recommended that dens obtain permission slips from parents.


This is for Cubs not Scouts

Correct!

It's still a good idea idea to get a signed permission slip with emergency contact information and authorization for medical treatment for all outings. My troop only requires a permission slip if a parent is not accompanying Junior on the outing.

[wagionvigil]

Troops Must have a Tour Permit if required by their Council.

[smtroop168]

Troops Must have a Tour Permit if required by their Council

Agree...it's the wacky wording that says that:

There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required.

and that in-town dens trips don't require a TP that is not clear.

If a patrol can have an activity away from their normal meeting place without 2 deep leadership, who fills out the TP with the applicable required training (YPT, WX etc).

[evmori]

Troops Must have a Tour Permit if required by their Council

Agree...it's the wacky wording that says that:

There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required.

and that in-town dens trips don't require a TP that is not clear.

If a patrol can have an activity away from their normal meeting place without 2 deep leadership, who fills out the TP with the applicable required training (YPT, WX etc).

I would agree. This is similar to den outings. Troop outings away from their normal meeting area require a tour permit.