Basic Guidelines

[smtroop168]

I thought I might spin up the leaders at the 2nd session of the Merit Badge College I'm running next weekend and ask them for their Tour Permits and make sure they have completed the Weather Training. We have a couple of troops that have 12-14 scouts participating so is it a troop activity or not? We also have troops with only one scout.

It might be fun to watch them run over to the 2 DEs in attendance.

[cballman]

smtroop168 I can see that you and I were made from the same mold. With me knowing what I know I would do it just because I could. Keep up the good work.

[ThunderingWind]

I thought I might spin up the leaders at the 2nd session of the Merit Badge College I'm running next weekend and ask them for their Tour Permits and make sure they have completed the Weather Training. We have a couple of troops that have 12-14 scouts participating so is it a troop activity or not? We also have troops with only one scout.

It might be fun to watch them run over to the 2 DEs in attendance.

A) So, just to be clear......If a single Scout (or patrol) goes to a MB Day by signing up outside of the troop, no Tour Permit
B) If a Troop gathers the boys at Point A for group travelt o MB Day, a Tour Permit IS REQUIRED?
C) Iif a Troop gathers names etc for registration BUT the parents drop the boy off and pick him up, a Tour Permit IS STILL REQUIRED.

Because

A is a NOT a Troop activity and B & C ARE Troop activities.

[wagionvigil]

it all depends upon the Council for 1and 2 and Local in town stuff.

[kwildman]

Tour permits are a risk management tool. Different councils have different policies and if your council says it is required then that is a no brainer and you have to submit one. If it is not explicitly required the Troop leadership needs to use their common sense and determine whether or not to submit one. For carpooling situations, the tour permit does have the advantage of listing driver's licenses and insurance limits. Although this information is not verified, it demonstrates a "standard of care" by the troop leadership. Permission slips should also be used for any troop activities involving travel. If an accident occurred i would want to make sure that we had all of the required documentation to protect the BSA, CO, and the troop leadership.

[wagionvigil]

1. Always file a tour Permit if you do not want to take the time Quit. Please !
2. Always get Permission Forms Be careful about who signs. In some cases you may have to have both signatures. It is a messed up world we live in. Custodial Parent!!!!

[biglou]

I am just curious as how this went from a merit badge guideline question to a tour permit/permission slip issue?

[FrankJ]

Its all my fault

[Cowboy]

Back to advancement now?
Here is my recommendation. I just got done conducting "Merit Badge Orientation" for some new counselors for our upcoming Merit Badge Clinic. I will also be conducting this training at the MBC. I found a need for it after I realized that there is nothing other than a 5 minute module on the web and so many of our parents wanted to help, but were being thrown into the mix without really understanding what a Merit Badge was or how to counsel them. Course description first and then some explaination:
*Opening
*Introductions
*YPT
*Merit Badge History
*How to Counsel: ask boys to read book, no more - no less, Counsel vs teach, Special needs, behavioral issues, Blue cards & signatures, only sign what is actually completed, accepting partials, individual testing, worksheets, discuss vs write, time frames, skill levels, and partials.
*Troop meeting counseling
* Lone Scout conseling (always w/buddy)
* Clinic counseling
*Quiz & discussion
*Adult Application & MB Counselor application
*Additional questions
*Complete session evaluation
*Go home
First things first: The person conducting this training must be an experienced MBC. Next, they must be a member of the Council Training Team or the YPT does not count. Conduct this training for all new parents soon after crossover. Bill it as information about MB's. This will get people who want or intend to be active to attend. Open with the Pledge and explain that all Scout functions start this way to remind us of our freedoms, such as: to assemble. You get the YPT out of the way. It does not have to be taken on line! By getting them there for the MB stuff you can kill two birds at once. Since MB Counselor is a direct contact position, it is required for the "job". This will clear one hurdle for you and them. You cover the history and usage of MB's to inform them of the difference between Cubs and Scouts. Then cover the items listed above. We do use Blue Cards in our Troop and also for our Clinic. Just makes things easier. If you use something else cover that instead. Make your point very clear concerning the fact that only a registered counselor can approve a MB. I then asked everyone present to complete an Adult Application (remind them that there is no fee for MBC registration). Then have them look over a complete list of MB's (I provided everyone with this) and fill out an MBC application for any that they feel comfortable with. Make sure you have a couple of requirements books handy so that they can look at the requirements. Some of the names are deceptive.
For this first session I had an old timer (30 yrs as Scouter) sit in. He has been on the Council training team for about 20 years and was conducting YPT before it went online. Good thing that there were 3 of us there with YPT. The VCR tape provided to me was defective! I went from an anticipated hour VCR presentation to 5 minutes of tape and then winging it. No problem as I was prepared. Missed one item (appropriate clothing) but was reminded by another Scouter. Hard to remember not to skinny dip when it is 13° outside. The old timer informed me that he even learned at the session. This took 3 hours (we did end up spending 45 minutes on YPT) with a 5 minute break in the middle.
One of my attendees suggested taping this training for future use. If we decide to do this I will let yall know.

[wagionvigil]

I would like to see basic training for all parts on dvd or somthing so everyone gets the same training. I was at breakfast yesterday with some old time scouters. One was celebrating his 94 BD and 75 year in scouting. One of the men present is a retired Professional scouter. WE were talking about problems in scouting especially with training and following rules. AS far as following rules he said there are parts of the country that are lucky BSA even allows them to have scouting for then as now they make it up as they go. AS far as training goes he said everyone needs to have exactly the same training and the only way to do that is have it on film/dvd etc.He went furthur to say that 30 years ago a scouter took the time to make slide shows of certain aspects of training. Now here is the shocker it was my father. I was told he made these and They should be somewhere. WEll I got in the closet in my basement and yep I found How to pack a pack and how to use a map and compass. I will be coping these to my PC today or tomorrow. I am sure they are dated but some parts may still be OK. The Scouter also said that BSA Must make training required and that those that choose not to be and those that choose not to follow the rules must be removed from the program immediately.

[Cowboy]

Hear, Hear!! Couldn't agree with you more. I think with the advent of the internet we have come a long way, but on the flip side of that: If the "old timers" don't promote the training AND get it themselves we continue with the same old ways. For example: The SM can sign for any MB. Last fall we went round and round on this issue. I finally printed off the Official regs on it and handed it out. That got everyone in the Troop on the same page. We now have a pretty comprehensive list of REGISTERED MBC's in the Troop instead of just a few registered and a couple with the SM or even ASM signing off. Additionally: Most of us are volunteers. If we have a full set of training we will not have to "waste" time trying to glean all of the information from different sources just to do things correctly. If you aint trained you don't know it. If you don't know it you can't teach it!

[wagionvigil]

For example: The SM can sign for any MB

I never heard this until this forum and it always comes from outside of the NER.

[biglou]

I agree with making training mandatory. However, I was reading this thread and it got way off the original topic. Isn't there a thread that is related to making training madatory? If not there should be. I don't care what level of the program you are involved with, you either get the training for the position or your gone, thank you very much, do not past go and collect $200.

[biglou]

I found the post for making training mandatory. It is up to 75% for making it mandatory. Here is the link:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2135

Training should be mandatory. If you are not trained, complete the training or go bye-bye until you do! I know I am a very busy individual but I somehow manage to make the time for required training in all of my activities.

[kwildman]

i think BSA could do a better job of providing clear direction on what training is required for each position. They have done a great job of getting training on-line and I hope that continues since no one can say that the training wasnt available to them. However for other training it can be hard to get volunteers to and they are not offered enough to allow scheduling flexibility (i.e., BALOO). Also everyone needs to remember that the majority of scouting is run by VOLUNTEERS and depending upon where these volunteers are at in their growth as a scouter they may not be as committed as you currrently are. We need to be careful to bring them along at their own pace and make them committed scouters and not scare them off or burn them out.

[wagionvigil]

I disagree. You want to do this you will get trained. I think a year is plenty of time. I realize time is valuable but running a correct and safe program is more valuable.

[biglou]

Training should be mandatory period. I belong to several different organizations that are VOLUNTEER. For example, as a firefighter, I am required to take HAZMAT First Responder Operations, CPR, and 32 hours of training which I can choose from. For my EMS Training, I am required to take 24 con-ed credits per year plus an annual CPR refresher. Yeah, the volunteer numbers are dwindling, but these are the requirements as set by the respective organizations I belong to. If I don't complete them, I am gone until I do. No questions. It was explained to me when I joined them.

Before I walked in as Scoutmaster, most of the previous leadership did not have most of the training. I would say less than 25%. Now, 85% of the Scoutmasters have completed the required training and then some. The others have not completed the training because of their own schedules but have read the Scoutmaster's Handbook and completed the online training that they can. This has led to an improvement in my Troop in the overall program and retention of the Scouts. The only problem left in my Troop is most of the Committee have not completed the required training. This has led to problems with the Scoutmasters and Troop Committee because they do not understand their jobs.

The leaders that are not trained are doing a disservice to the members of their Troop. Do they understand the program? Do they know what their job responsibilities are? What happens if someone gets hurt? I can go on and on. My opinion is if you do not complete the training, then you are until you complete the training. Their are councils out there that require 100% compliance with training. Your Chartered Organization Rep or Institutional Rep can also mandate it. I just do not understand what the big deal is. I honestly feel it is laziness on the part of those who do not want to complete the training.

[Cowboy]

After reading this (and several other threads) I have to admit I never realized how lucky we are here. In our council we have an opportunity almost every month to take NLE & SM specific almost every month during the school year and at least once during the summer. We also have SM Outdoor at least 3 times a year, and Wood badge twice. That coupled with the online means that there really is no reason for people to not take the training. In our Troop the biggest issue is not the "active" leaders, it is the TC that do not see any need.

[kwildman]

I disagree. You want to do this you will get trained. I think a year is plenty of time. I realize time is valuable but running a correct and safe program is more valuable.

we require the basic trainings within a month of signing up. However, there are many training programs that are not offered frequently enough to fit with everyone's schedule. These days I don't think twice about taking off work to attend training however this was not always the case when i first started. Some training classes are just not offered frequently enough for everyone to attend. I am not saying that we shouldnt expect everyone to be trained...what i was trying to say is that BSA needs to do a better job of clearly indicating what training is required and what is optional and also making it reasonably available for people to take. I think they are getting better but there is a lot of work to do.

[smtroop168]

For example: The SM can sign for any MB

I never heard this until this forum and it always comes from outside of the NER.
[color=#BF0000]

I've heard this from a SM in a Troop from NJ at a Summer Camp when discussing SC partials and my Brother in Law who is a DAC in CT has a couple of old SMs who think they are MBCs for every MB (which he has squashed)