Another polecat in the stew pot.

[Cowboy]

As you regular readers know by now, we have had some issues in the past with our Troop. We are trying to get them squared away, but it is a long process. Here is the latest wrinkle:
Scout A passed his BOR and SM last spring (April?) for Life. Proceeded immediately to begin work and complete his EP. His mother had been the advancement chair through the last 1.5 years until he reached Life. She then abdicated and we got 2 new co-chairs for advancement. During her tenure as AC she played fast and loose with advancements. The new gals discovered, through talking to the boys and learning Troopmaster, that all a Scout had to do was tell her that they had earned something and she gave it to them. She did not update records the entire last year. It took the new gals over 60 hours to catch up records. There were a number of MB's that had actually not been earned, but had been awarded, etc. Here is the big issue:
Scout A did not have the required ER merit badges in order to obtain Life Rank. The SM and BORs have been pretty good at checking the boys book for the requirements, and had actually held another boy back at about the same time for lack of ERMBs. Apparently he (or she) had written in the MBs that he was working on, not that he had completed. He was wearing his OA sash due to an activity when he had his Life BOR, so there was no way to verify or notice the discrepency. He has been Life for 9 months and finally received his 7th ERMB. Serving ACTIVELY is a whole other issue, Troop Guide who has been to less than 50% of Troop meetings. My question relates to his time though:
What would be the correct policy on this matter: A) He was awarded the Rank of Life. B)There is no direct evidence that he obtained it through knowing and willful fraud. C) Does his "time" start now that he has obtained the ERMBs? Both for tenure and POR? Just one? Neither? He just gets a pass? Before anyone says talk to the CC: That would be his step father. Talk to the SM: They are very close friends, so I need something very concrete and in writing to take with me.

[wagionvigil]

Sorry once it is done it's done. He gets a pass sorry to say

[Mrw]

Yeah, he gets a pass on this one. But he needs to know the EBOR is very likely to notice the discrepancy, and he will need to be able to explain how it happened, and why it should not have been that way.

Since he still has sevveral ER badges left to earn though, there is still time to work with him on better fulfilling the leadership role of the POR.

[wagionvigil]

You never punish the kids for the stupidity of the adults in a case like this.

[Billiken]

You never punish the kids for the stupidity of the adults.

Classic line.

[smtroop168]

I had a similar case which resulted in a EBOR appeal that I sat on. The Scout did not have enough ER MBs to advance to Star. The EBOR did not award the badge since they said he should not have been a Star, so how could he make Life and Eagle.

National said that since the Star BOR advanced him, he was a Star so go from there. We did his EBOR and reluctantly passed him as one of the members was pretty hard over that the scout should have known better.

In Cowboy's case, there appears not to be stupidity but a blantant disregard for the advancement process by the old AC. It's really sad that she felt she needed to resort to and allow scouts to get badges that did not earn and its sad that scouts would accept badges that they did not earn. I'm not sure which is worst.

I wish the new folks trying to sort this out luck. The Advancement reports submitted by the old AC need to be scrutinized and make sure they use internet advancement to see what the council records show.

[kwildman]

I think there is a bigger problem in this troop in that the AC was allowed to operate for so long without anyone else in the committee realizing this. The Scoutmaster should have seen red flags when scouts are earning badges without blue cards, signatures are required on advancement forms, etc.

[FrankJ]

Your A & B gives the scout the rank already awarded. This is a great subject for a scout master conference though: You can discuss both why he does not have the rank taken away from him. (because you are follow the rules.) If in the spirit of the scout law if there is anything he can improve on? That there is a new sheriff in town & going forward the advancement policies will be followed. Your expectations of him as troop guide & his vision of what a troop guide should be doing. All about teaching scout to make moral & ethical choices.

[smtroop168]

I think there is a bigger problem in this troop in that the AC was allowed to operate for so long without anyone else in the committee realizing this. The Scoutmaster should have seen red flags when scouts are earning badges without blue cards, signatures are required on advancement forms, etc.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the entire TC and SM must have been either asleep or in cahoots with this.

[cballman]

This problem goes back to another few post. 1. COMMUNICATION without this nobody knows what the other is doing. 2. TRAINING without this nobody knows what to do except what they have been told. When you have a break in either of the two above items then you have a bunch of problems.

Cowboy I would hope that you can train and teach the commititiee members to communicate with each other and then also maybe you can train and teach the leaders to communicate also.

Seems like I have found the two words that we need to teach EVERYBODY how to use.

[Cowboy]

Slow baby steps in making the needed changes. Did anyone notice that the old AC is the mother and the CC is the step father? Additionally, AC's best friend was Secretary. Yeah a lot of problems. Fortunately, our new AC's are both very conciensous and WILLING to learn. Don't know how everything got through before, but now all signatures are in place and no one gets anything without definite proof. Both of them come to me on any questions since I try to know teh rules, and if I don't know them (as in this case) I know where to find them.

[Mrw]

Did anyone notice that the old AC is the mother and the CC is the step father? Additionally, AC's best friend was Secretary. Yeah a lot of problems.

I did notice that. It is actually rather surprising that she stepped down on her own before her little angel had gotten his Eagle. At least this way, he will earn it and be a better person for it.

[kwildman]

The real problem is that the kids see their peers earning things without effort. This typically does not promote an attitude of working harder within the troop. While advancement is a personal thing, you know kids are mindful of where they stand with others.

This seems like the typical inverted program where the TC is working for the SM instead of the other way around.

[milominderbinder2]

When you turn in your monthly Advancement Reports, the council registrar will get an error message when she types it into ScoutNet.

Are you turning in your Advancement Reports?

- Craig

[scoutaholic]

The real problem is that the kids see their peers earning things without effort. This typically does not promote an attitude of working harder within the troop. While advancement is a personal thing, you know kids are mindful of where they stand with others. ...

My troop had a boy several years ago who was the son of ASM/MBC. When he 'earned' his Wilderness Survival MB, he built a shelter by throwing a tarp over the top of the swing-set in the back yard. He thought that was enough to fulfil the requirement, and Dad signed off the badge.

For several years, I would hear the other boys bring up his questionable MB. His Eagle, and his other 40 MBs were all brought into question because of this one instance.

Another former leader was known to sign of MBs (and ranks) that hadn't been earned. He signed his own sons Camping MBs when they setup a tent in a hotel room.

Interestingly enough, I never heard another boy express the desire to 'earn' MBs the same way these boys did.

[FrankJ]

Interestingly enough, I never heard another boy express the desire to 'earn' MBs the same way these boys did.

Funny that they watch & learn as much as what we do as what we say.

[Mrw]

When you turn in your monthly Advancement Reports, the council registrar will get an error message when she types it into ScoutNet.

Are you turning in your Advancement Reports?

- Craig

I have found that uploading the Troopmaster advancement data is far more accurate than expecting ScoutNet to flag something out of order.

I had a boy three years ago cross over from Cubs the same month his older brother earned Star. The person at council who keyed in the data credited the younger boy with the Star rank.

Although it was easy enough to get them to correct the data for the older boy, for the younger one, I could not get them to remove the incorrect date. Dates for lower ranks would not then upload for this boy when we got access to on-line advancement until he actually earned his own Star rank. So all told it took two years to correct this error that should have been flagged in the first place.

[smtroop168]

Did anyone notice that the old AC is the mother and the CC is the step father? Additionally, AC's best friend was Secretary.

As I said, there was complicity in this situation. They should be removed as registered "leaders".

[FrankJ]

MRW: Are you loading the troop master advancement data directly to scoutnet? How is that working? I have been try to convince our AC that this would be a good idea.

Sorry I know this is a completely different polecat into the pot

[Mrw]

MRW: Are you loading the troop master advancement data directly to scoutnet? How is that working? I have been try to convince our AC that this would be a good idea.

Sorry I know this is a completely different polecat into the pot

Yes, and it is truly wonderful. Troopmaster will immediately flag any dates that cannot be, and I can double check and make sure things are proper before uploading the information. Since the upload is electronic, no one ever has to re-enter any information and I no longer need to try to get things corrected at Council, which was painful at best.

After the data is uploaded, you again can confirm the advancement data is correct and complete before hitting the final submit button.