Advice -- Parental involvement in The Project

[AquilaNegra2]

My definition of acceptable parental involvement is whatever the Eagle Candidate tells you to do within the execution of planning or execution. If they tell you they need to have you drive them to Lowe's so they can price materials...okay. If they want you to sit in the back of the room on meetings and phone calls...okay. But if they ask you to type their project plan, politely decline. I tell my guys it's the one chance you get to boss your parents around but after your project you might need to sharpen your Cooking skills 'cause you're not gonna be fed anytime soon.

Why? What if your Scout doesn't type? If they're doing the work, but having someone else type it up for them, I don't see a problem with that. Or did you mean actually formulating the project plan? Obviously, that would be overstepping.

[smtroop168]

Why? What if your Scout doesn't type? If they're doing the work, but having someone else type it up for them, I don't see a problem with that. Or did you mean actually formulating the project plan? Obviously, that would be overstepping.

There is no requirement to type you project plan and if you have someone else type it, then it's already done. The problem becomes when it might be dictated to a parent and it's edited by them as they type. Most youth know how to use a keyboard today.

[Quailman]

I don't really see a problem with typing help. But as a parent it's difficult not to edit as you go. I've typed a couple of school assignments for my sons, and I leave misspellings, punctuation errors, etc. alone. I give him a chance to proofread and correct, but they've still been turned in with typos. Thr rough drafts got turned in with the typed versions, and probably should be included for an Eagle project.

[ronin718]

Yep, the sensitivity factor is high. Tired of being made to feel "bad" about my son's advancements.

Saddest thing I heard.

I have seen a number of "Me and My Dad" projects. Unfortunately the last 2 were from LDS scouts. That's why I recommend stepping back.

What ideas does he have?

He doesn't currently have any, and we haven't pointed him in any particular direction. Our troop has a long history of projects at a County park and nature preserve one of our ASMs does caretaker work at, so that's always a possibility. Our District also typically has a list of potential projects for boys to choose from. We're really waiting for our son to meet with the Troop Eagle Counselor to see what falls out from that.

So if we weren't LDS, would you be making the same recommendation? There's a reason you'll see what you term "Me and My Dad" projects with LDS scouts. It's part of our culture. We're very family-oriented, and we work together as families. When you add in the fact that the typical Life Scout in an LDS troop is 13 years old, these boys are still willing to go to their parents for assistance and haven't reached that "know it all" point yet.

I know things are done a little differently in the LDS Scouting realm, but we're not in an LDS unit. We're looking to do this the so-called "right" way, so can we please focus on my son's potential project and not on past "bad" projects.

[smtroop168]

So if we weren't LDS, would you be making the same recommendation? There's a reason you'll see what you term "Me and My Dad" projects with LDS scouts. It's part of our culture. We're very family-oriented, and we work together as families. When you add in the fact that the typical Life Scout in an LDS troop is 13 years old, these boys are still willing to go to their parents for assistance and haven't reached that "know it all" point yet.

Yes.

Also did not mean to offend. The last two were LDS scouts but I can point to at least 6 others including one that started out that way in my troop. The biggest one was that a scout said he and his Dad were going to build a concession stand for his soccer club and his plan showed Dad picking up the $3000 cost of materials!

We're looking to do this the so-called "right" way, so can we please focus on my son's potential project and not on past "bad" projects.

But the "bad" project stories will help him do his project the "right way"

[ronin718]

We're looking to do this the so-called "right" way, so can we please focus on my son's potential project and not on past "bad" projects.

But the "bad" project stories will help him do his project the "right way"

Okay, that's valid. On with the stories...

[Hubert]

Like others have stated, when in public, show a small amount of encouragement/work. Just be the adult there. But when at home, like my mother did, be the parent. Just ask how its going, what are the plans so far, etc. Try not to seem pushy, as this will upset him, however, just be curious.

My Eagle Project consisted of raising money to collect and distribute smoke detectors to everyone in my school. This was after a good friend of mine, who went to my school, passed away along with her little sister in a house fire. They did not have a working smoke detector in the house, and this sparked an idea that snowballed into an Eagle Project. However, theres always a bad side to things. My project was approved by my troop and council, but theres always those people that you can never satisfy. And those people were raising ruckus at council becuse they viewed my project as a fundraiser only and did not count. So I was not only trying to do the project, I was trying to do it in a manner that would have the least ammount of dispute. I understand totally that you cant please 100% of the people 100% of the time, however, I was looking to the least ammount of argueing because of the reasons for my project. I however stated to people many times that I am raising money just like any other project. I am buying my supplies, which is somke detectors, instead of wood, nails, etc. And instead of building something and giving it away, I am just giving them away. I offered top install them if needed, well, to have my team that I had ready to install them.

Overall, the project went off well. The whole time, my mother would just sit back and let things go in public. However when we were at home or anywhere else, shed ask questions about it and talk to me and guide me in the right direction. That was the best thing she could do, and she did a good job too!

[Trigirl]

Ronin, I can relate to your situation and understand its frustrations! My son is 13.5 (Life for a few months now) and has one MB remaining (personal Mgmnt) and his project. He was thinking of projects before his Life BOR and immediately thereafter pounced on the one he liked the most. He is fortunate to have a good relationship - I think - with the SM and was offered a very good POR that he LOVES.

However, as you can understand - there are parents in the troop who can't accept that someone younger than their son is advancing faster. In fact, a comment was made to his best friend's father that it would be difficult to explain how these two boys got ahead and made Eagle if they did it while they were 13. (Explain to WHO I do not know....)

There are three 'older' patrols in our troop that seem to be designated to be first in line for their Eagle and he has been made to feel that he will NOT be given any kind of support or help on his project. He did get the green light that the project is "eagle worthy" and the go ahead to write up his plan, but with the instructions to 'not talk about it in the troop.' He ultimately plans to use his patrol for labor on one day of the project, but has recruited from school and church for other help. He had wanted to recruit adults with power tools from within the troop - but feels like he isn't able to approach anyone because he can't "talk about it."

There are a group of older boys taking the Personal Mgmnt merit badge and he was told that there is an 'age requirement' and noone at his patrol level could participate in that class! Yet that is the only merit badge he needs and he knows he has a long record keeping period to earn it....

So, I am trying to educate him about the BSA rules. He knows there are no 'age' restrictions on Merit Badges - but there are a lot of unwritten rules out there that are hard to follow. He did go to the district website and downloaded the Eagle application and project workbook. We read them carefully together. I pointed out that there are NO age restrictions. I hope that he will be confident enough to be able to stand up for himself -- But it is hard for a young boy to challenge authority when they quote rules as if they are official...

Yes, it will be a little harder on him because the troop apparently thinks that the older boys have a 'right' to do their project first and will get the full support of the troop and guidance of a leader. He will have to PROVE that he is worthy of this - and do the work on his own without an "eagle adviser". However, the harder you work for something the more it is worth to you and the more you learn from it. He has said that he believes he will get a lot more out of this project than the 15 year old boys who are being 'given' a project and helped along.

Ah. I feel better now after having said all that!

Good luck to your son! I imagine by now he is well on his way to finishing a project!

[Quailman]

There are a group of older boys taking the Personal Mgmnt merit badge and he was told that there is an 'age requirement' and noone at his patrol level could participate in that class! Yet that is the only merit badge he needs and he knows he has a long record keeping period to earn it....

They are "taking" the merit badge? From that I assume you mean they are in a group setting in which the material is getting spoon-fed to them, and they probably are not getting individually tested. Here's how a merit badge should be earned:

Pick A Subject. Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors. These counselors have special knowledge in their merit badge subjects and are interested in helping you.

Scout Buddy System. You must have another person with you at each meeting with the merit badge counselor. This person can be another Scout, your parents or guardian, a brother or sister, a relative, or a friend.

Call The Counselor. Get a signed merit badge application from your Scoutmaster. Get in touch with the merit badge counselor and tell him or her that you want to earn the merit badge. The counselor may ask you to come and see him so he can explain what he expects and start helping you meet the requirements.

When you know what is expected, start to learn and do the things required. Ask your counselor to help you learn the things you need to know or do. You should read the merit badge pamphlet on the subject. Many troops and school or public libraries have them. (See the list of current merit badge pamphlets posted on this system.)

Show Your Stuff. When you are ready, call the counselor again to make an appointment to meet the requirements. When you go take along the things you have made to meet the requirements. If they are too big to move, take pictures or have an adult tell in writing what you have done. The counselor will ask you to do each requirement to make sure that you know your stuff and have done or can do the things required.

Get The Badge. When the counselor is satisfied that you have met each requirement, he or she will sign your application. Give the signed application to your Scoutmaster so that your merit badge emblem can be secured for you.

The "troop" cannot stop him. Any scout may earn any merit badge at any time. This badge can be completed relatively easily, but there's a 3-month requirement on tracking expensess and income. Most MB counselors will accept a schedule started prior to contacting him, so he should start now.

[wagionvigil]

Another oneof those FLorida Councils. Seems to be a patern down there

[Trigirl]

Thank you Quailman. It is very interesting to know how other councils/districts/troops handle these issues - which many of us think are standard operating procedure -There is a lot of confusion (I think) about when you can open and begin work on a MB. The understanding here is that you must have the SM sign off on the blue card BEFORE you begin any work on the MB. SM approves the opening of MB.

My son asked last summer about opening this merit badge (PM) because he was researching new computers for our home office - he did all the research and cost comparisons and found the best rebates etc - and we ultimately bought 3 new systems that he spec'd out. He knew there was a requirement about this- hmmm - I don't know it, but I know it is #1 and it has to do with being a good consumer and shopper. He realized what he was doing for the family was relevant to that MB and asked to open it... no go.

As for the 'spoon feeding' in a group setting- I don't think that really happens much in our troop. I've taught some group MB and the format is usually explaining the requirement, for instance - talking with them about how to write and give a 5 minute speech and have an older boy give an example - and then being there for them to bring in their homework. I know the lady who is teaching PM is a real stickler for preparation and those that don't prepare - do not participate in the discussion.

Yeah, maybe some of the personal motivation to do it on their own is alleviated, but I do think the boys are learning. - Plus - in my experience as a MB counselor - there are boys who want to get it done before the next COH to get their MB and those that let the harder requirements go and still have them open two years later - You can lead a scout to the workbook but you can't make him do the work!

[Cowboy]

I have REtyped several pages of my sons EP workbook. For some reason the schools software is not compatable with what we have at home. Since he wants to be able to print copies any time he needs one, and I only sleep 5 hrs a night, I have done this service for him. But his originals, both hand written and typed also go into a second binder that he always keeps available and shows people. This is the workbook with all of his pictures and rough drafts in. Keeps his actual final draft nice and neat, but also shows all of his work leading up to that package.
Personally, I always encourage our Scouts to complete all ERMB's prior to working on the Eagle project. I do not ever tell them that it is National Policy, that one just burns my butt! A good majority of the ERMB's will provide invaluable knowledge for most ER projects. Speaking, money management, environmental concerns, etc. But as has been stated over and over again, it is not required by National. We have also discovered that there really are very few guidelines/requirements placed on the project by National. This is one area where I personally feel National should step up and set up actual "rules".

[wagionvigil]

A sM quit in our council when he was called on telling the Boys they did not have to have all the ERMB done before starting a project. The same guy would tell them the project had to be at least 2000.00 to be approved plus 500 houirs or some other stupid number.

[smtroop168]

One down and many to go!

[kwildman]

A sM quit in our council when he was called on telling the Boys they did not have to have all the ERMB done before starting a project. The same guy would tell them the project had to be at least 2000.00 to be approved plus 500 houirs or some other stupid number.

I cant believe that this would even make it to council. The TC should have booted this guy before it got that far.

[wagionvigil]

No one asked him to leave.He just quit when a parent started asking questions. They became informed and found out what the SM had been doing was wrong and called him on it. He said if he could not do it his way he was done. ANd he was done.

[FieldSports]

First, Welcome to the forum Trigirl

FYI.

For any merit badge - The scout shows interest and approaches the SM to get the list of approved MB counselors for that particular MB. The SM is to provide the name and contact. Read all the other posts on signed blue cards

For the PM there is an age requirement 10.5 - 17.9999999 years old (same age requirements for joining or finished with Boy Scouts)!

Your best bet for ANYONE (No exception for SE) is "Show me were in writing where I can read this rule?"

[ronin718]

Good luck to your son! I imagine by now he is well on his way to finishing a project!

Well, he hasn't started his project, but he's starting the groundwork now. He finished off his final MBs last month (Pers. Mgmt. and Cit in the Comm), so now he can put his focus on the project. He's talked with a couple teachers at his school. They referred him to the Nature Club who are looking to put in a pond and outdoor classroom environment on the school grounds. We've had several boys do similar projects from our troop, so he will have plenty of in-house knowledge to work from.

We've never really faced an age requirement issue for the MBs. The closest we've come to a blatant "you're too young" pronouncement was when our son made Life. Typically when a boy earns his Life rank, he becomes a part of the Senior Patrol. Our son was told he needed more leadership experience before he could join the SP. My wife and I were okay with that since we weren't sure we wanted our then-12 y/o son hanging out with a bunch of 15-17 y/o boys. They grow up too fast as it is.

[Trigirl]

In our troop the boys never "advance" to another patrol. The senior patrol remains the guys who joined first and have been around the longest - only one Eagle is still active. I wondered why they didn't do that - seems like the older patrols would be based more on rank. But my son seems very happy with the relationships he has with the boys in his patrol. He has been with a few of them since Bear Cubs - so that is pretty special.

I love the pond idea. Another scout tried that and it didn't fly. I'm not sure it was because of the school or the troop. I think it is a great idea - will look forward to hearing if it goes for ronin's son and how it turned out.

Thanks, FieldSports, for the welcome and the info about blue cards. I'll have to search on the old topics. Not that anything will change at this point - son seems to be working okay within our current system and I guess that is all that matters. We all have to figure out the politics where we work and while they aren't always fair or logical - it pays to learn those lessons early!

[PaulSWolf]

For the PM there is an age requirement 10.5 - 17.9999999 years old (same age requirements for joining or finished with Boy Scouts)!

Actually, since PM has a 13 week budget requirement, the Scout must start the badge before he turns 17 years and 9 months old. But otherwise, you're quite right.