how an SPL gets his troop less rowdy

Administering the troop, solving problems, building on success, and using key program elements like the Patrol Method.

Moderators: Site Admin, Moderators

how an SPL gets his troop less rowdy

Postby keytar04 » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:56 pm

i was recently elected SPL of my troop for the first time. While i have been ASPL for a total of 18 months before-hand, our SPL's during that time did not do a good enough job in terms of controlling the behavior of our troop members. i am now restructuring the way our troop meetings are run, and also getting us to do more hands-on stuff, but i have a few questions as to how handle scouts who are misbehaving.
1) a life scout in my troop that is a year older than me (he is 14 therefore i am 13) is behaving like a tiger cub, goofing around when i am trying to get the troop to do something, and stuff like that. he also thinks its funny to get me aggrivated, make fun of me and other scouts, and talk back to me. :x he is also non-trustworthy and apparently does not know that the scout law exists. in fact he doesnt even have the law memorized. :!: since he is one of our older scouts the younger scouts look up to him, so he sets an example. what should i do in terms of handling him without making myself seem strict, mean, and/or power-hungry?
2) scouts begin talking when the troop is doing something, and other scouts join in. when i put the sign up they put theirs up too but still talk at the same time. this got so out-of-hand last time that i changed around the meeting agenda and we ended up playing British Bulldog for 45 minutes. ive gotten some pointers from my scoutmaster (thank you mr. clapp! :D ) since then, but how should i handle this if it ever happens again?
thank you,
sean r
SPL
troop 200
Last edited by keytar04 on Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
keytar04
Scout
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:16 pm
Location: Newmarket, NH

Postby t305spl » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:58 pm

hey remove the names u had in ur Troop Guide forum post.
Matt A.
Eagle Scout
Asst. Scoutmaster
t305spl
Eagle
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:16 am
Location: Theodore Roosevelt Council-New York

Postby keytar04 » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:03 pm

i did, read my reply
keytar04
Scout
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:16 pm
Location: Newmarket, NH

Re: how an SPL gets his troop less rowdy

Postby t305spl » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:18 pm

keytar04 wrote:1) a life scout in my troop that is a year older than me (he is 14 therefore i am 13) is behaving like a tiger cub, goofing around when i am trying to get the troop to do something, and stuff like that. he also thinks its funny to get me aggrivated, make fun of me and other scouts, and talk back to me. :x he is also non-trustworthy and apparently does not know that the scout law exists. in fact he doesnt even have the law memorized. :!: since he is one of our older scouts the younger scouts look up to him, so he sets an example. what should i do in terms of handling him without making myself seem strict, mean, and/or power-hungry?


Talk with him one on one. Make an agreement where if he cant behave he will be asked to leave the meeting. If he keeps it up prevent him from going on troop outings. Does your troop where uniforms alot? Alot of the time they might act better in uniforms.
Matt A.
Eagle Scout
Asst. Scoutmaster
t305spl
Eagle
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:16 am
Location: Theodore Roosevelt Council-New York

Postby keytar04 » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:25 pm

there is the problem.
my troop DOES wear uniforms. i thought about that one, too. the scout i was talking about in question 1 only wears his uniform during ceremonies and "patrol corners" so he can get credit for wearing the uniform, since my troop has "uniform awards" monthly. :evil: if only everything were perfect...
keytar04
Scout
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:16 pm
Location: Newmarket, NH

Re: how an SPL gets his troop less rowdy

Postby Rick Tyler » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:26 pm

keytar04 wrote:i was recently elected SPL of my troop for the first time. (...)
1) a life scout in my troop that is a year older than me (he is 14 therefore i am 13) is behaving like a tiger cub, (...)
2) scouts begin talking when the troop is doing something, and other scouts join in.


First, Sean, please don't post your first and last names. It's a violation of this message board's youth protection guidelines.

How do you get a troublemaker on your side? How do you keep the scouts quiet when you need them quiet? These are excellent questions, and there are lots of issues involved. I'm going to throw some ideas out that might work, and you and your Scoutmaster can consider whether they would work in your troop.

1. Get Olderscout on your side. Can you make him Asst SPL? Is he a troop officer? Anytime you can make a troublemaker part of the solution you win. We had a troubled SPL a couple of years ago who had been quite a disruptive scout, and he really struggled as SPL. Now, as a 16-year-old former SPL, we hear him telling his friends to settle down and be quiet because, he says to them, "You have no idea how hard it is to be SPL."

2. Take Olderscout aside and ask for his advice on how to make the meetings more fun. Tell him that you respect his experience and think he might be able to help you improve your meetings. If he's a real hard case, ask your Scoutmaster to help you with this.

3. Use your Patrol Leaders to help you control the scouts. Good SPLs figure out that it is much easier to work through four PLs than it is 30 scouts. Make sure that the PLs understand that part of their job is to maintain order in their patrols. Get your Scoutmaster to back them up. Use your ASPL carefully-- he (or they) is not the boss of the patrol leaders and needs to understand that he isn't.

4. Make sure your meetings are fun. If you have the boys sitting still for more than 15 minutes per meeting, you're doing it wrong. They already sit in school six hours per day, they want to have fun at the Scout meeting.

5. Do adults stand around talking in the meeting room while you are trying to run your meeting? Get rid of them. I've seen dozens of times that adults talking encourages the scouts to talk. If the adults are not helping you run your meeting they should be in another room, out in the hallway, or outside. If they aren't helping you, they're distracting the scouts.

Remember that boys are by their nature active and noisy. You aren't trying to run a library reading circle. They DO need to be polite to you and other leaders, and work together to make the program go. Good luck, and let us know what you decide.
Last edited by Rick Tyler on Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rick Tyler
Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 575, Chief Seattle Council
OA, Wood Badge, Merit Badge Guy, &c.
Rick Tyler
Life
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:44 am
Location: Redmond, Washington

Postby OldGreyBear » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:35 pm

The wonderful thing about giving the sign is that it works, the worst thing about the sign is that is only works as well as the person using it. This may be a long and painful process, but the situation that you have didnt develop overnight so dont expect to fix it overnight. First, the older scout you mention. have you talked to your scoutmaster about how to manage him? perhaps a three way conversation could be arranged with you, the scout and the scoutmaster. You set the meeting time and you run the meeting. You tell the scout he is to behave according to the scout law, you set this expectations. Talk to the scoutmaster ahead of time, he is there as a witness, but dont let him talk much, the less the best. The point is to establish what you are saying has his backing without him actually saying it. You could introiduce him as a witness.

Next, when you give the sign, give it until you can hear a pin drop. DOnt setle for "half quiet" go for silence. DOnt talk when you have the sign up, because if you talk you show that anyone can talk with the sign up. As soon as the noise level picks up, Up goes the sign untl its silent.

Be warned, this is a tedious process, but they learned to be rowdy over a period of time and civilizong them will take long as well. DOnt lose your cool, just stand there with the sign up. Be prepared to get very little done as you will be spending a lot of time with the sign up, but how much do you accomplish now? Keep at it, the scouts will learn you mean business when the sign goes up.

Enlist your patrol leaders. If a patrol is "acting up" dont you tell them to settle down, ask the patrol leader to "take charge of his patrol". That way you can run the meeting and watch the entire troop and not get bogged down by one patrol. With the unruly scout as well. DOnt you take care of the problem, ask the patrol leader to do it. That immediately tells the sout its two (you and the PL ) against him. It will take awhile, but then again

Roma non constructum est unus diem
OldGreyBear
Eagle
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Minsi Trails Council

Postby Rick Tyler » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:53 pm

OldGreyBear wrote:Roma non constructum est unus diem


Rome wasn't built for a dime?
Rick Tyler
Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 575, Chief Seattle Council
OA, Wood Badge, Merit Badge Guy, &c.
Rick Tyler
Life
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:44 am
Location: Redmond, Washington

Postby Guneukitschik » Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:58 pm

I think you mean: Rome wasn't built in a day!
Guneukitschik
 

Postby ChristheScouter » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:14 am

I have been in office for a little over 3 months, adn I know how hard it is,

You need to enforce that you, NOT THE SM is the one in charge of the troop
NO ONE not the oldest Eagle is higher than you are,
I know this is sounding like a dictatorship, but it is the way it is, they might be higher in rank, but they are not higher in authority
only the Comittee as a whole is higher in authority than you are

I have had a particularly hard time because before me we had a very very lazy SPL who would sit around the entire meeting, feet proped up, and he wouldn't make us be quiet
The boys thought that all SPL's would be like that, especially the new ones, but they listened to me the first few meetings, after that they decided they were higher than i was, and that they wouldn't do what I told them no matter what

I had a few young scouts who were very vindictive, who would talk when i specifically told them to be quiet, and thenn there were a few scouts my age who were sore about not being elected
And I still have problems with those two

But this isn't about me, it is about you, remember to not pick on any one of them, no matter personal feelings, do you like it whn the teacher picks on you? Well they won't like it when you pick on them.
Also never point out a large problem in front of every one, that makes people get very vindictive.
and as Old Grey Bear said don't settle for half or even three-quarters quiet, you want silence
Scouts should be fun, yes I agree one hundred percent with that, but it needs to be orderly so the formalities cna be gotten over with, explain this to them, and don't let an adult do it for you, that will make them think that you are a coward
And remember that whole karma thing now, because when you were their age and rank you did the same thing as they are doing, no? well the way you act as a leader could influence the next SPL

Chris
Current Senior Patrol Leader for
boy Scout Troop 241
in Canton, Georgia
See my troop in action at www.troop241.com
ChristheScouter
Scout
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:27 am

Postby Rick Tyler » Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:03 pm

ChristheScouter wrote:I have been in office for a little over 3 months, adn I know how hard it is,
You need to enforce that you, NOT THE SM is the one in charge of the troop(...)


Chris, you can transfer to my troop any time. Keep it up!
Rick Tyler
Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 575, Chief Seattle Council
OA, Wood Badge, Merit Badge Guy, &c.
Rick Tyler
Life
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:44 am
Location: Redmond, Washington

Postby ChristheScouter » Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:41 pm

Well that is how Baden-Popwel wanted it, no?

on a side note Happy Winter Solstice(spelling?)
Current Senior Patrol Leader for
boy Scout Troop 241
in Canton, Georgia
See my troop in action at www.troop241.com
ChristheScouter
Scout
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:27 am

Postby BM_Crawford » Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:49 pm

You need to enforce that you, NOT THE SM is the one in charge of the troop
NO ONE not the oldest Eagle is higher than you are,
I know this is sounding like a dictatorship, but it is the way it is, they might be higher in rank, but they are not higher in authority
only the Comittee as a whole is higher in authority than you are


Actually the collective PLC is alot higher than the SPL. They can choose to impeach him or can out-vote him on what they want to do.

And I wouldn't put it in a "higher than you" point of view. Each possition has its own responsibilities and contribute. It shouldnt be a match as to who is the top as it should be a team of people who work to gether with the SPL keeping order.

There are also other possitions that do not report to the SPL in any way such as Troop Guide and Junior Assistant Scoutmasters or Den Cheifs.

And actually the committee is not higher than the spl. The committee is below scoutmasters and everything if you look at it. BSA National site says that the committee's primary role is to support the troop as determined by the Scoutmaster and the PLC which means that you are in charge of the committee. They are there to make sure things are safe and that there is adequete leadership, aswell as money issues.

I just wanted to clarify the committee thing because that is a problem in alot of places. Committees for some reason feel it their place to act as leadership.
Brian Crawford
ASM of Troop 251
District MBC
BM_Crawford
Eagle
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: PA Bushy Run District

Postby t305spl » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:03 pm

You got it right BM_Crawford.
The SPL is the Top Youth leader but not head of the troop. The PLC is the MAIN governing body of the troop.
The BSA is not set up as a Dictatorship with one leader. It is made up of several parts. The SPL runs the program and keeps everything running smoothly. The PLC oversees the whole program to make sure we are working to potential and the Committee is their as well as the SM to ensure BSA policies are enforced and safety is never endangered.
That is a big problem in many troops, they dont let the PLC run the way its supposed too. Alot of Committees think since they are adults it is their job to run the program. But its not, my Committees is one of them they tear apart PLC decisions.
Matt A.
Eagle Scout
Asst. Scoutmaster
t305spl
Eagle
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:16 am
Location: Theodore Roosevelt Council-New York

Postby Rick Tyler » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:44 pm

BM_Crawford wrote: And actually the committee is not higher than the spl. The committee is below scoutmasters and everything if you look at it. BSA National site says that the committee's primary role is to support the troop as determined by the Scoutmaster and the PLC which means that you are in charge of the committee. They are there to make sure things are safe and that there is adequete leadership, aswell as money issues.

I just wanted to clarify the committee thing because that is a problem in alot of places. Committees for some reason feel it their place to act as leadership.


The Committee and the Scoutmaster represent the chartered organization. Their combined role is to deliver the BSA program to youth on behalf of the CO. The Scoutmaster delivers the field program, and the Committee provides troop administration and suppors the Scoutmaster in delivering the program. The Scoutmaster is selected and recruited by the Committee.

Committees who micromanage the program are wrong. Talking about the PLC being "higher" than the committee is incorrect. Scoutmasters who think they don't answer to anyone are wrong, too. If I were a Committee Chair who saw a Scoutmaster going badly off-track, I would be talking with the CO Representative immediately about fixing the problem.

The Scoutmaster's main job is to train and guide youth leaders, to coordinate other adults in support of the program, and (most importantly) to use the methods of Scouting to achieve the aims of Scouting. The SM and ASM act as the guardrails to make sure the PLC doesn't run the program into the weeds (or off a cliff).

If everyone understands their role and works together, a troop or pack is a thing of beauty. When it goes wrong, it's like a bad marriage.
Rick Tyler
Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 575, Chief Seattle Council
OA, Wood Badge, Merit Badge Guy, &c.
Rick Tyler
Life
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:44 am
Location: Redmond, Washington

Postby BM_Crawford » Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:23 pm

The committee doesnt pick the scoutmaster though.

It is your job to make sure that there is good leadership from the scoutmasters but if I'm not mistaken the committe does not pick the scoutmaster. That is done by the Chartered Organization they can decide whatever they wish.
Brian Crawford
ASM of Troop 251
District MBC
BM_Crawford
Eagle
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: PA Bushy Run District

Postby ChristheScouter » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:24 pm

Well in our troop the comittee is higher on things, they can't pick the SM though we have had the same one for 30+ years.

but i forgopt about the PLC other wise what i stated before is how my troop is run although some little idiots can't seem to get it into their heads
Current Senior Patrol Leader for
boy Scout Troop 241
in Canton, Georgia
See my troop in action at www.troop241.com
ChristheScouter
Scout
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:27 am

Postby BM_Crawford » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:31 pm

lol, believe me friend I know the feeling hehe. I was one of the only older scouts who were active in the troop during my second term as SPL so it was rather easy. But I had to be creative and inventive the first time around to get people to listen up. It's hard. Don't be afraid to ask your adult leaders for suggestions, or your PLC
Brian Crawford
ASM of Troop 251
District MBC
BM_Crawford
Eagle
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: PA Bushy Run District

Postby Rick Tyler » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:55 pm

BM_Crawford wrote:The committee doesnt pick the scoutmaster though.

It is your job to make sure that there is good leadership from the scoutmasters but if I'm not mistaken the committe does not pick the scoutmaster. That is done by the Chartered Organization they can decide whatever they wish.


The Troop Committee Guidebook, Chapter 5, says that the troop committee is responsible for identifying SM prospects, ranking them, and recruiting the SM. The COR reviews the list of prospects and approves them. The COR can veto a prospect at this stage. The Guidebook does not say the CO picks the SM, but they certainly can control the process. I guess it is possible that the CO wants a certain person picked as SM, but that the committee never puts that person on their list. The Guidebook does not discuss this sort of conflict.
Rick Tyler
Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 575, Chief Seattle Council
OA, Wood Badge, Merit Badge Guy, &c.
Rick Tyler
Life
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:44 am
Location: Redmond, Washington


Return to Troop Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests