How "themes" hurts advancement and troops

[koholintscout]

After browsing through this board and some of the stuff on mb.org, I've come to realize that there's a lot of support for "themes" to plan for troop meetings. I think using such material is bad for advancement and bad for troops. I know some out there disagree with me, so here's some key points:

1. It's hard to fit in requirements in to pre-fabricated "theme" meetings. A lot of these allot time for certain skills that match up with the overall theme of the month, and while sometimes these can match up with a few requirements (some knots come to mind), it by and large gets in the way of allotting time to teach and to test scouting skills. Not to mention the difficulty of fitting in requirements that may be more time-intensive. For instance, if a troop does not have a "First Aid" theme planned for a year, it means a Tenderfoot will have to fit in all the first aid requirements for Second Class at a campout (if one is scheduled and there's time alloted there for advancement-sometimes not the case) or will have to wait a very long time for the next "first aid" themed month to roll around.

2. Themes are boring. To some this may be an unfair criticism, but the theme worksheets are, let's say, dated. They call for games that nobody plays anymore or are not fun. The actual Scouting activities called for are relevant in general, but often not in the circumstances of that meeting. If a troop has a campout the weekend after the meeting, it makes more sense to cover skills that will be used in the campout as opposed to rigidly following what the theme worksheet calls for. Additionally, you get the issue of Scouts not being motivated because they are wasting their time learning skills that are not immediately applicable to campouts nor do they help them advance. This is often coupled with older Scouts lacking enthusiasm to teach what they equally see as an unnecessary set of skills for that time, when they could be helping the younger ones get better at something more relevant or help them advance. (also look at point 4, below)

3. Themes are not efficient. The way they allocate time does not take into account the actual needs of troops. I know that often times troops that follow the theme worksheets will allow for some fudging of the time, but that is beside the point. The way they call for the splitting up of time for the troop is simply not an efficient way of doing things. Rather, splitting the troop into advancement levels for much of the time during a troop meeting can greatly help a program become successful. Of course, some activities must have the whole troop, or people of very different ranks be involved-elections, administration stuff, campout planning, games, Scoutmaster Minute, etc.

4. Themes take away from advancement for older scouts. Just like my aforementioned criticism of themes as not helping younger scouts advance, except worse. Older Scouts already know how to do nearly everything that theme months can call for. What is on the mind of older Scouts is not "oh boy I hope I master all these skills for this month's theme again" but instead "man, I need [insert merit badge name here] and [insert another merit badge name here] to get [insert higher rank]." While some other Scouts must be helping out the younger Scouts (advancement should be the Troop Guide's obsession and a big concern for the SPL and PLs, of course), a lot of older Scouts should be working together on requirements on their merit badges and troop meetings should allow for counselors to come in and be there to help these older Scouts succeed. Themes are often shackles for the advancement of older boys. Summer camp should not be the only opportunity that the troops provides for boys to get their badges.

5. Themes take a lot of power out of the boys' hands. One of the greatest things about Scouts is that it allows for boys to learn so much about leadership. Themes effectively decide at least a half of how each meeting will run. It is far more challenging and infinitely more rewarding to force boys to plan their own meetings instead (with adult help when needed, of course). This also helps boys take ownership of the plans they created and help run the troop more effectively.

Here's an example of how my troop did things when I was in:
Whenever people arrived-7:00: Game
7:00-7:05: Opening
7:05-7:15: Admin/announcements
7:15-7:50:
New Scouts: Went with Troop Guide and worked on advancement
Under 1st Class: Went with specified and prepared older Scout(s) and worked on advancement in accordance with a plan made by PLC
Older Scouts: Worked on a merit badge-usually at least one of the meetings in a month would have the MB counselor. The plan was at least two or three merit badges per term (6 months).
Troop Leadership: Bounced back and forth between the groups and overseeing execution of the plan
7:50-8:15: Covered something the whole troop needed to know/do (usually something relating to the upcoming campout). Sometimes the previous section would run over past 8:00.
End: Scoutmaster Minute

I'm not saying our plan was perfect at all (just the opposite-we had a lot of issues), but I just wanted to throw my two cents out there and maybe get some people questioning what appears to be "common wisdom" for a lot of folks. I invite whatever discussion comes my way!

[alex gregory]

Spot On!

I can't stand "theme" driven meetings. I hated them in Cub Scouts and I think they're even worse in Boy Scouts. Usually the theme gets introduced and then forgotten. It drives me nuts that PLC wastes time that should be spent planning the next outing or service project discussing this month's theme.

Advancement is about an individual Scout working on his individual goals. The themes are basically designed for TTFC, which makes troop meetings for 1st Class and above pretty dull. Assuming troop time is well spent on advancment skills that I think are better learned while scOUTING, I far prefer the approach of letting the guys break out into groups and work on whatever.

[Bill Pitcher]

Ditto Koholintscout: There is NEVER enough time to plan the next activity. And I agree that there is where the scouts demonstrate new skills earned.

By the way, are those Black Knights going to win any football games THIS year?

[biglou]

I am going to disagree here on this. If used properly, it makes your meetings very easy to plan and use. My Troop has been using themes and to be quite honest, it works. We use the Troop Program Features, Volumes I-III. This works and it makes things much easier for us as adult leaders. It took me about a year to get the Scouts and adult leaders to buy into it, but it does work.

[biglou]

I am going to consult my "BaGBa" (Big Green Binder) that I got from Camp School. They have different meeting plans for Scoutcraft Skills and also contain the aforementioned Troop Program Features Vol. I-III. I am also going to say this needs to be used in conjuction with the Troop Program Resources. You can find a copy of this online.

[biglou]

OK I am consulting the Troop Program Features in thy "BaGBa". In it there is plenty of resources for you folks to use in your Troops. I am going to try and answer K's objections point for point as best as I can.

1. It's hard to fit in requirements in to pre-fabricated "theme" meetings. No it is not. You can tailor these pre-canned meeting plans to your Troop's needs. For example, in the Aquatics Program Feature, you can work on swimming strokes for the younger boys while the older boys can work on Snorkeling BSA, BSA Lifeguard or Lifesaving or Swimming MBs. You can tailor a Troop meeting to meet your needs.

2. Themes are boring.They are only as boring as your Scouts make them. I had a Scout who was leading a meeting using the Communications program feature and it turned out that it was one of his better meetings for the year. He stuck to his game plan and did an awesome job! Like I said, tailor the plans to your Troop!

3. Themes are not efficient. Why would they not be? This would help you PLC make decisions as to what they would like to do for the month. Remember, your annual program is planned by the PLC with input from their patrols.

4. Themes take away from advancement for older scouts. I am trying to figure out this one. I pulled out the Cultural Awareness program theme. There are plenty of suggestions for the new scouts as well as the older scouts. I think it would be neat to learn about another culture and so would my Scouts. Partly because the adult leadership would be supportive of the program and the feature for the month.

5. Themes take a lot of power out of the boys' hands.In my Troop, it puts the power right in their hands. After summer camp, we have our annual Troop Planning conference to come up with the program for the year. This has helped my Troop alot! We are actually bringing in kids rather than losing them. If they do not like what the program feature planner says, they usually come up with their own program feature and plan. It is to the point now where the SPL of my Troop doesn't even bother calling me to ask about the Troop meeting plan. He looks at the book and comes up with his plan for the Troop meeting. He is to the point now that he does an excellent job with the meetings. I actually help out only when it is absolutely necessary. I learning more about leadership from them then they are learning from me or one of the other ASMs.

The BSA has spent thousands of dollars to come up with the Troop Program Features Vol. I-III, Troop Program Resources, the different associated handbooks for Youth Leaders, Troop Leadership Training, etc. If you aren't using these resources, you are silly not too. They are there to help your Troop become better. If I were to put $100 on Troop 40 today vs. Troop 40 twenty years ago, my money would be on today's Troop 40. They are way better than what the Troop 40 I belonged to. Not because of me, because they are doing way more things and learning way more than what the Troop 40 of my time did.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[smtroop168]

It doesn't matter whether you use themes or not. They are only a tool to assist. It matters if the boys are leading the meeting.

[scoutaholic]

For what it is worth, here is my oppinion on the subject:

There are plenty of good planning helps and ideas in the Troop Program Features. They can help to plan some good meetings. Take your annual plan, and use the meeting plan suggestions that fit the topics you need.

Whoever it is at the National Office who comes up with the themes they recommend and highlight in Scouting magazine doesn't know your troop (and won't consider your needs). From what I can tell, the monthly recommended themes are not structured in a way to support anyones individual advancement plan. They fit the season, and will include some advancement elements, but there are some advancement elements that will never be included if you always use the themes recommended by National.

[koholintscout]

OK I am consulting the Troop Program Features in thy "BaGBa". In it there is plenty of resources for you folks to use in your Troops. I am going to try and answer K's objections point for point as best as I can.

1. It's hard to fit in requirements in to pre-fabricated "theme" meetings. No it is not. You can tailor these pre-canned meeting plans to your Troop's needs. For example, in the Aquatics Program Feature, you can work on swimming strokes for the younger boys while the older boys can work on Snorkeling BSA, BSA Lifeguard or Lifesaving or Swimming MBs. You can tailor a Troop meeting to meet your needs.

2. Themes are boring.They are only as boring as your Scouts make them. I had a Scout who was leading a meeting using the Communications program feature and it turned out that it was one of his better meetings for the year. He stuck to his game plan and did an awesome job! Like I said, tailor the plans to your Troop!

If you're just going to throw out parts of the canned meeting plans, then why bother with them to begin with? So you can have a thematic approach to four meetings in a row? My point is abandoning themes frees troops up to tailor everything to a Troop's needs. I'm sure that some meetings can go well if you use a program feature, and I'd expect meetings to go well if the leadership sticks to game plans that are tailored to troops. I think its unfair to say that the onus is on Scouts to make canned program plans interesting. Assuming you want to follow themes by the book, take a gander at the "High Adventure" Theme games in the second volume of the themes packet. Blindfold soccer? The amazon? Good luck getting kids interested. Now lets look to the "Hiking" Theme. It has older scouts planning a hike for four weeks. These boys are the leadership cabal of the troop and you have them planning the same hike for four weeks? This is supposed to keep them interested? Plans should be interesting enough that the SPL doesn't have to bend over backwards to maintain interest in the subject matter. Sometimes themes literally repeat themselves. Look at volume one Citizenship week 2 and Business week 2-both call for projects of "Good Turn."

3. Themes are not efficient. Why would they not be? This would help you PLC make decisions as to what they would like to do for the month. Remember, your annual program is planned by the PLC with input from their patrols.

Like I said, they are not efficient because they do not logically split the tasks up amongst the troop. I don't think they help the PLC make decisions in the least. And my troop planned things only for the next six months right after a new PLC is elected.

4. Themes take away from advancement for older scouts. I am trying to figure out this one. I pulled out the Cultural Awareness program theme. There are plenty of suggestions for the new scouts as well as the older scouts. I think it would be neat to learn about another culture and so would my Scouts. Partly because the adult leadership would be supportive of the program and the feature for the month.

They take away from advancement for older scouts because they rigidly set the agenda for older scouts that too often has little to no connection to the needs of the older scouts, advancement-wise. Since the higher ranks' advancement essentially consists of leadership time and merit badge completion, it becomes essential to get merit badge requirements in at meetings, which can be a difficult task if one's hands are tied with themes.

5. Themes take a lot of power out of the boys' hands.In my Troop, it puts the power right in their hands. After summer camp, we have our annual Troop Planning conference to come up with the program for the year. This has helped my Troop alot! We are actually bringing in kids rather than losing them. If they do not like what the program feature planner says, they usually come up with their own program feature and plan. It is to the point now where the SPL of my Troop doesn't even bother calling me to ask about the Troop meeting plan. He looks at the book and comes up with his plan for the Troop meeting. He is to the point now that he does an excellent job with the meetings. I actually help out only when it is absolutely necessary. I learning more about leadership from them then they are learning from me or one of the other ASMs.

I don't understand how using pre-planned schedules and ideas for meetings puts more power in the hands of the boys. Planning meetings are of course a necessary part of any well-functioning troop. You said that your boys come up with their own features and plans if they don't like themes. That's great, and it's essentially my point-themes should be rejected because boys should be able to plan their own meetings.

The BSA has spent thousands of dollars to come up with the Troop Program Features Vol. I-III, Troop Program Resources, the different associated handbooks for Youth Leaders, Troop Leadership Training, etc. If you aren't using these resources, you are silly not too. They are there to help your Troop become better. If I were to put $100 on Troop 40 today vs. Troop 40 twenty years ago, my money would be on today's Troop 40. They are way better than what the Troop 40 I belonged to. Not because of me, because they are doing way more things and learning way more than what the Troop 40 of my time did.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Well, you said yourself that your boys have not used "Themes" for some of their meetings and that they have also modified plans to better fit your troop's needs. This is what I'm saying should happen but on a smaller scale. Also, this point that "BSA spent money on it so you should use it" is not legitimate in my eyes because BSA spends a lot of money on things that I don't like and they spend money on things that are inefficient. Just like any organization, BSA is not perfect and not all guidance from the national level ought to be followed.

Good to hear that your troop is doing better. I'm sure you're more instrumental in its success than you give yourself credit for. As always, thank you for engaging in discussion with me about this just as you have other issues.

It doesn't matter whether you use themes or not. They are only a tool to assist. It matters if the boys are leading the meeting.

I think it does matter-a lot of keeping boys interested in Scouts is the perception of momentum, that they are doing something worthwhile and something that is helping them progress. Ultimately, boys truly leading is what matters and is what makes Boy Scouts the best organization for boys around. I'm just concerned that we lose boys if troops keep to the letter of the "Themes."

For what it is worth, here is my oppinion on the subject:

There are plenty of good planning helps and ideas in the Troop Program Features. They can help to plan some good meetings. Take your annual plan, and use the meeting plan suggestions that fit the topics you need.

Whoever it is at the National Office who comes up with the themes they recommend and highlight in Scouting magazine doesn't know your troop (and won't consider your needs). From what I can tell, the monthly recommended themes are not structured in a way to support anyones individual advancement plan. They fit the season, and will include some advancement elements, but there are some advancement elements that will never be included if you always use the themes recommended by National.

You're right-I don't think monthly themes are structured in a way to support anyone's advancement. That is what makes these a waste of time in my eyes. I don't believe we should be simply checking boxes and pushing boys through the program, but at the same time we need to realize that boys can only take so many unproductive troop meetings. For so many boys, they aren't going to get much support at home for doing more merit badge work outside of campouts, camps and meetings. Helping them advance at meetings is crucial. That's why these things are outrageously bad.

[FrankJ]

On the other hand, there are those that say that working on merit badges during troop meetings is getting dangerously close to an advancement mill.

You have to do what works for your troop. If you do not like themed meetings: do not use them. We generally do not. But if see one that is a good idea, why not use it?

[biglou]

Let me ask this question then. Have you ever even tried to use the formats provided? Just wondering.

[biglou]

As for the money spent quote, I have looked at and have used the Troop Program Features Volumes and this is worth the money.

[koholintscout]

Let me ask this question then. Have you ever even tried to use the formats provided? Just wondering.

Yes, my troop used them exclusively to plan meetings for a few years. I got to my troop in Ohio after moving from a troop in Colorado which did not use them and the difference was startling. While there were other factors that contributed to this, my troop in Ohio had huge retention and advancement issues. Suddenly, after jettisoning themes and taking a more active role that took into account where the boys were on the trail to Eagle, things seem to run smoother.

As for the money spent quote, I have looked at and have used the Troop Program Features Volumes and this is worth the money.

I think this is ultimately going to be a subjective call, but my point of contention is that you say we should use these Volumes because BSA spent money on developing them. To me, that's not a good enough reason.

On the other hand, there are those that say that working on merit badges during troop meetings is getting dangerously close to an advancement mill.

You have to do what works for your troop. If you do not like themed meetings: do not use them. We generally do not. But if see one that is a good idea, why not use it?

Sure, there are going to be people who call it an advancement mill. My retort is this: if a troop is expecting boys to do merit badges only at home or at camp, then I'd say that troop may be creating some unnecessary problems for itself. It is impossible to really fit in all the Eagle Required badges into meetings and its equally impossible to push boys through enough MB requirements in total to get them across the finish line-sometime, they have to show initiative and do the work themselves. I agree that troops should use what they want and utilize what they see as good ideas, but I think my biggest frustration is just the mentality that these things make and the missed opportunities for troops to organize and develop leaders.

[smtroop168]

The aims of the Boy Scouts of America are to build character, develop citizenship, and foster personal fitness. (Where's Advancement? - it comes if you're meeting the aims) How you achieve those aims is wide open. The "themes" are a TOOL to help units with program ideas and generate interest in the particular area. If all you do is read from them, you've missed the boat and it becomes another hour of school. Spice them up and get the boys to come up with how they feel the best way is to run the meetings. What appears to be a bland theme can become pretty cool if you have a little creativity and imagination.

As far as MBs at meetings, what is a better place to get a group of scouts interest in Electronics (taking apart old Gameboys or computers). Having a State Senator come in and talk to the scouts about citizenship. Having a Appalachian Trail Backpacker come in with all their gear and talk about hiking the trail. Eagle required MBs have their place as well, with working on Personal Fitness, Communications and First Aid as examples.

[FrankJ]

Thanks SM168. I am going to incorporate a bit of that in my module in SM training tomorrow night. It fits in nicely with the syllabus.

As for merit badges during troop meetings. Our troop does zero as part of the troop meeting. Parts of different presentations may go to satisfy a requirement. We also have an advancement night once a month where individual scouts can work on advancements they need. We manage our share of eagle scouts without focusing just on advancement.

Other troops have different needs. If you do merit badges in meetings and still manage a interesting boy led program, good for you.

Speaking of interesting productive meetings with a boy led program, especially if you are turning over leadership every 6 months, is quite a trick. If you are successful, keep up the good work, and share your secrets. It is not easy.

[Cowboy]

Who says that you have to use Nationals Theme? Tailor the idea to your Troop. We use the theme approach. A theme lasts for two months. For example: October & November is Nature. We are doing an outing in which the boys will be working on Orienteering (hard to do inside). They will also be able to work on cooking, wildlife and conduct a service project. They will be able to work on any nature or outdoor MB that they are interested in, and still have time for other stuff. In the spring they will have a 2 month Forrestry theme. The current plan is to have a fund raiser,selling and planting saplings, which fits into the program in so many ways. They will have a guest speaker and be able to work on Forestry MB, community service, etc.
Take a theme and make it work. Our boys came up with the themes, then asked us what we could think of to fit into it. One more thing that I try to teach all of our boys: A good leader will make use of any rescource available, and always ask for help even if "he" thinks he has a handle on it.

[biglou]

FYI, my Troop does not use the program feature of the month as suggested by Nationals. They poll the Troop and then they use what they want from the Troop Program Features. It works for those boys.