PaintBall

[mhjacobson]

Except, unlike the other shooting sports, the paintball guns are pointed at other people. In addition, there have been many reports of participants being injured while paintballing. I know that some of my scouts come back from paintballing (independently not a scouting activity) with bruises where they where hit.

As a certified BSA Rangemaster, I know that if a gun, even a paintball gun, is pointed at someone else during an activity, it will be banned by BSA.

[FrankJ]

I think that BSA should open up paintball to the G2SS for Troops. I think it is an age appropriate activity for teenagers, its fun and it promotes team work. As an NRA instructor i dont think that this goes against what we are training youth for safe firearms. This is an activity in a controlled setting, with safety gear, and supervision.

It is not about safety. At least part of the ruling elite is totally against this type of activity. Until they are gone, it will not change.

Please note that I am not expressing my personal opinion about paintball, just an observation of the status quo.

[kwildman]

The ruling elite are out of touch w/ what kids want to do. I have seen way more bruises and injuries from the youth playing capture the flag then playing paint ball.

[wagionvigil]

The ruling elite are out of touch w/ what kids want to do. I have seen way more bruises and injuries from the youth playing capture the flag then playing paint ball.

Actually a few years back Capture the Flag almost got the ax The big thing is ya got to watch those Ground hog holes. I do not see BSA approving anything that allows shooting at real people. Or fake people for that matter.

[FrankJ]

I do not see allowing or not allowing paint ball as having much effect on scouting. There is a whole lot more stuff to do in the woods. Anyway, it is not a battle that is going to get fought so I spend my time on other things.

There was a discussion a while back about an explorer post shooting airsoft guns at people as part of an police training exercise.

[cballman]

The major part of this is that the ruling elite that makes the rules also are the ones that handle the LAWSUITS. This issue or non-issue depends on how you look at it. I was raised that when you point a gun at something or someone it meant that you were going to kill it. It didnt matter if it was a Deer, Squirril, or a person. When you allow an activity that can hurt someone or thing then you open up a can of lawsuit happy people. So my take on this is that since there is a chance that someone is going to get hurt often then NO I wouldnt allow it either because of the sue happy people in this country. Yes we still need to discuss this with the kids but as a Hunter, Shooter and a Scouter I personally do not like the game of paintball.

[Quailman]

I participated in paintball once (I don't say 'played' because play shouldn't hurt so much). My sons have done it a few times. It leaves serious bruises. That aside, I believe it's the pointing and shooting at others that is of major concern.

Apparently the Longhorn Council has interpreted the rule to mean the game of paintball is prohibited, not the guns themselves. They have a high adventure program called Area 51 Outpost in which the scouts use M-16 replica paintball guns with laser sights to repel alien invasions by shooting at life-size targets.

See page 9 here: http://www.longhorncouncil.org/uploads/ ... 4e392e.pdf

[wagionvigil]

I participated in paintball once (I don't say 'played' because play shouldn't hurt so much). My sons have done it a few times. It leaves serious bruises. That aside, I believe it's the pointing and shooting at others that is of major concern.

Apparently the Longhorn Council has interpreted the rule to mean the game of paintball is prohibited, not the guns themselves. They have a high adventure program called Area 51 Outpost in which the scouts use M-16 replica paintball guns with laser sights to repel alien invasions by shooting at life-size targets.

See page 9 here: http://www.longhorncouncil.org/uploads/ ... 4e392e.pdf

This council is used to test programs and such Maybe something coming along?

[FrankJ]

G2SS was revised earlier this year? You can shoot paintball, but not at living targets or human representations. I guess alien targets are OK as long as they are not alive. It is in the prohibited section of G2SS.

The only argument against paint ball that makes any sense to me is that you do not want scouts playing paramilitary type games. If paintball was allowed, there would be a troop some where that would take to that level.

I have not heard of that many lawsuits over paintball.

[biglou]

I know of a Troop in my council that plays paintball regularly. The sad thing about it is the council does not do anything about it. Heck they even posted it on their Troop website at one point.

As far as paint ball is concerned, if you want to do this, don't go with your Scout Unit. I am not a fan of it. It is a personal thing. If you wanna do it with your friends, that is one thing, but not with your Scouts.

Just my 2 Cents worth about this subject.

[WeeWillie]

The following URL is a link to Time Magazine Aug 29, 1927

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... -4,00.html

BSA has a long standing policy against conducting military training. Many Scout skills and merit badges have applications to military training but they are not directly related to military training. Go to a paint ball range or competition and you will see paint ball machine guns, paint ball grenade launchers, paint ball land mine etc. You will also find military training manuals. Many paint ball ranges conduct tactical training. If you are particpating in a paint ball event that use squad and platoon level fire and maneuvere you are conducting military training

Militias and terrorist use paint balling to teach tactics. The Imam al-Mahdi Scouts is a Hezbolla youth group that trains boys to be terrorists. Their symbol is the traditional Scout fleur-de-lis with a motto in Arabic: "Obey." Do we want to be associated, valid or not, with these organizations?

Paint balling is incompatable with scouting world brotherhood.

By the way, I am a retired Army Officer. Producing young men who are trustworthy and loyal are more important to military service than teaching fire and manuever.

[kwildman]

Its a game plain and simple.

Paramilitary? Lets see we dress in uniforms, follow a command structure based on patrols, earn various shooting and wilderness survival merit badges. All of this originated because some military guy wrote a book about how to be a scout (in the military sense) and a bunch of kids decided to use the book to play their own games. Also, i have been to numerous scout events where ROTC or one of our military branches have been running stations or training. Half dozen uniformed youth rappelling down the Army's climbing wall while being belayed by soldiers sure seems para-militaristic to me.

You say the terrorist youth groups use a fleur-de-lis so they are already associated with us whether you like it or not. They probably learn to tie knots, climb and rapell, make fires, etc. but we still do these things.

I can understand the safety issues associated with the activity but I think that these could be managed appropriately. There is risk in taking scouts scuba diving, climbing, boating, and high cope but these activities are allowed provided that certain criteria are met.

[Billiken]

The Imam al-Mahdi Scouts is a Hezbolla youth group that trains boys to be terrorists. Their symbol is the traditional Scout fleur-de-lis with a motto in Arabic: "Obey." Do we want to be associated, valid or not, with these organizations?

Somebody please tell me that this "group" is not part of the WOSM

[FrankJ]

Of course if the no paramilitary training thing is the reason paintball is banned, then we should stop pretending it is a safety issue. We should also ban first person electronic shooter games like Halo for the same reason. Perhaps we should stop camping on aircraft carriers or military bases.

Most people who play paint ball mean no more harm to the opponents than others that play full contact sports. Maybe even less.

[Quailman]

In none of the activities mentioned by kwildman (scuba diving, climbing, boating, and high cope) does a participant, if he succeeds, leave marks on another participant.

But perhaps I am prejudiced because, like I said, I tried paintball last year. In addition to the bruises from being directly shot at, I had a close call when I wasn't. I had been hit and was walking off to the side and inadvertently crossed behind a teammate when I was hit in the upper leg. It came within an inch of being fatal (okay, maybe not fatal, but I still shudder when I think about it).

[kwildman]

Participation at will...if you are on the field you can reasonably expect to be a target. I have taken church youth groups to play paint ball and the girls enjoyed it as much if not more than the boys. Paintball may not be everyone's cup of tea but neither are all the other activities. If the events are held at a commercial range, safety equipment is mandatory, play is regulated by a range official, the equipment is all checked prior to entering the range to ensure that they are under the 300fps requirement, etc. At 300fps you are looking at a maximum range of around 100ft and and an effective range (being able to break the paintball) of around 50-60ft.

I think we need to get all the scout executives together for a day of team building and let them actually play the game.

[fritz1255]

I guess i'll weigh in here too..... I personally see nothing wrong with paintball. Our Troop does an annual paintball outing, although we specifically state that it is not under the auspices of scouting, and the boys are not to wear uniforms. Each paintball field has its own release form that the parents must sign, or their child cannot participate. We do not generate permission slips of our own, and needless to say, we do not fill out a tour permit for this activity. Parents are responsible for bringing their own boys or arranging transportation.

OK you BSA "rules weenies", jump right in! Make my day!

[alex gregory]

OK you BSA "rules weenies", jump right in! Make my day!

Well, since BSA won't have to cover your back I trust you have decided it's worth the risk of personal liability for injury and the out-of-pocket expense of defending a lawsuit.

[evmori]

OK you BSA "rules weenies", jump right in! Make my day!

Well, since BSA won't have to cover your back I trust you have decided it's worth the risk of personal liability for injury and the out-of-pocket expense of defending a lawsuit.

If the event is not done as as Scouting event, no issue!

[fritz1255]

That's where I'm at. It's the same as parents bringing their kids to a paintball field any other time.