PaintBall

[mhjacobson]

Except that the parents are not staying at the paintball activity, and it is the ('scout') event leaders who are acting as individuals (based upon your descriptoin) who are supervising the event, and now you do not have any insurance to protect you from any liability. Not a very good idea!

[evmori]

Except that the parents are not staying at the paintball activity, and it is the ('scout') event leaders who are acting as individuals (based upon your descriptoin) who are supervising the event, and now you do not have any insurance to protect you from any liability. Not a very good idea!

Big whoop! So the parents leave! And you don't have any insurance! Except each boy should be covered under their parents insurance! But why do we always assume something bad will happen?

[smtroop168]

Our Troop does an annual paintball outing, although we specifically state that it is not under the auspices of scouting, and the boys are not to wear uniforms. Each paintball field has its own release form that the parents must sign, or their child cannot participate. We do not generate permission slips of our own, and needless to say, we do not fill out a tour permit for this activity. Parents are responsible for bringing their own boys or arranging transportation.

OK you BSA "rules weenies", jump right in! Make my day!

It's simple.....The BSA prohibits Scout units from participating in Paintball where you are shooting at live targets. You say your "Troop" does an annual Paintball outing, then it's a defacto scouting activity. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck. We teach the scouts ethical values and to live the Scout Oath and Law and the adults flagrantly violate them, then we wring our hands on why the scouts don't follow the rules on other events.

Should you have an accident, stand by, your Council Executive could pull your charter.

[AquilaNegra2]

I think he means that the boys in his troop meet at a paintball field for an afternoon of fun with their friends, rather than his "troop" meeting together for a "troop" function.

We go to non-Scout activities that involve only Scouts. The invitation always includes explicit instructions that it's not a Scout activity, in no way covered by Scout insurance, and that parents are responsible for their own children. Since most of my boys' friends are involved in Scouts, most any activity they choose to put together is made up of mainly (often, exclusively) Scouts. It doesn't make it a Scout activity.

[smtroop168]

I think he means that the boys in his troop meet at a paintball field for an afternoon of fun with their friends, rather than his "troop" meeting together for a "troop" function.

That's not what he said. He said his Troop does an annual Paintball outing.

We go to non-Scout activities that involve only Scouts.

Such as???

[wagionvigil]

Base Jumping.
Flying into the Grand Canyon as Friends then meet up as a troop all of a sudden then fly out as friends. But count everything towards advancement. True and From the WLAC.
Painball
Non Top rope climbing
Single Line rappel without a secondary belay
Non Swimmers on a Canoe Trip and Not wearing PFD Oh it was a non scout activity just boys and dads.

[cballman]

The major problem is how each person interpets the rules. Seems like most of you think that Paintball is ok. Some of us dont. But if you have adult Scout leaders who will consider this a troop outing but want to do it as friends is WRONG. If you have a Scout leader in charge with mostly scouts and leaders present then it becomes a Scout outing by default. Now sometimes friends can get together Yes that is okay. We can argue these points until the end of time. BUT we as Scout leaders have to be able to teach right from wrong. The problem we have is that we want to bend the rules to suit our needs but then what are we teaching our children when we do this? Now with that how can we expect our children to follow the rules when we set them? So now we have disipline problems and WE as adults blame the kids when it is our fault they misbehave. Now look at what we have done.

[fritz1255]

And I guess none of you ever bend the rules? Never exceed the speed limit when kids are in the car? Never used the internet at work for non-business stuff (like this forum)? Gimmee a break!

While one of the Dads from the Troop calls the paintball field to make the reservation, it is specifically a non-Scouting event. As far as liablity, each parent must sign a release provided by the paintball field - they would not have it any other way.

[evmori]

I think he means that the boys in his troop meet at a paintball field for an afternoon of fun with their friends, rather than his "troop" meeting together for a "troop" function.

That's not what he said. He said his Troop does an annual Paintball outing.

We go to non-Scout activities that involve only Scouts.

Such as???

We use to do all-night bowling! It wasn't a Troop sponsored event. Who ever could make it did! We also played broomball with another unit annually! It wasn't Troop sponsored either!

[kwildman]

I am not concerned as much with breaking the rules as I am w/ trying to advocate the changing of the rules. I think that there is a lot of value in this game, it promotes team work and problem solving, and it is something that the majority of the them want to do. We can talk all we want about being boy led but we dont listen to what they want. It is pretty silly that you can do this with a church youth group but not as a troop function.

Times change and I think that the leadership needs to re-evaluate this. They could embrace this and use it to their advantage. Council and National sponsored competitions. Selling BSA sponsored equipment, etc.

[wagionvigil]

I have no problem if it is set up to shoot at targets not people. Many camps are actually starting to have it but there is noshooting at each other.

[smtroop168]

I have no problem if it is set up to shoot at targets not people. Many camps are actually starting to have it but there is noshooting at each other.

Which is allowed by the G2SS.

Pointing any type of firearm or simulated firearm at any individual is unauthorized. Scout units may plan or participate in paintball, laser tag or similar events where participants shoot at targets that are neither living nor human representations. Units with Council approval may participate in formally organized historical reenactment events, where firearms are used and intentionally aimed over the heads of the reenactment participants. The use of paintball guns, laser guns or similar devices may be utilized in target shooting events with Council approval and following the Sweet 16 of BSA safety. Council approval means the approval of the Scout Executive or his designee on a tour permit specifically outlining details of the event.

Times change and I think that the leadership needs to re-evaluate this. They could embrace this and use it to their advantage. Council and National sponsored competitions. Selling BSA sponsored equipment, etc.
I am not concerned as much with breaking the rules as I am w/ trying to advocate the changing of the rules. I think that there is a lot of value in this game, it promotes team work and problem solving, and it is something that the majority of the them want to do. We can talk all we want about being boy led but we dont listen to what they want. It is pretty silly that you can do this with a church youth group but not as a troop function.

Then write up your proposal and send it forward through your Council.

We use to do all-night bowling! It wasn't a Troop sponsored event. Who ever could make it did! We also played broomball with another unit annually! It wasn't Troop sponsored either!

Ed...curious as to why not? We do a home-at-home Volleyball and Softball outing with another troop.

[evmori]

We use to do all-night bowling! It wasn't a Troop sponsored event. Who ever could make it did! We also played broomball with another unit annually! It wasn't Troop sponsored either!

Ed...curious as to why not? We do a home-at-home Volleyball and Softball outing with another troop.[/quote]

Why not a Troop event? Not sure. I guess the guys just wanted to do it as buddies!

[wagionvigil]

SInce Bowling is not a restricted activity It is a non issue

[FrankJ]

Then write up your proposal and send it forward through your Council.

There was a blurb about this on the BSA innovation web site. It has been considered at national & some one up there with the power to stop it is apparently is dead set against it. Time to find something else to do with your scouts. Keep bringing it up if you like. Opinion do change.

From: Merril Davis, Innovation Coordinator

Based on the initial assessment of this activity; including the potential and frequency for injury, the BSA will not pursue Paintball at this time. The suggestion of potentially including Paintball as a sanctioned Scouting activity has been reviewed by a cross functional team including; Council Solutions, Outdoor Program, Risk Management, Health & Safety and Innovation. Please direct further questions to Merril Davis of the Innovation Team.

[evmori]

SInce Bowling is not a restricted activity It is a non issue

What about broomball??? Not on the restricted but very similar to hockey.

[wagionvigil]

APproved done all the time especialy Venturing

[AquilaNegra2]

I think he means that the boys in his troop meet at a paintball field for an afternoon of fun with their friends, rather than his "troop" meeting together for a "troop" function.

That's not what he said. He said his Troop does an annual Paintball outing.

We go to non-Scout activities that involve only Scouts.

Such as???

I'm hesitant to list them here and be flamed. But they are not activities that *could* be part of a Scout program. Since most of their friends are Scouts, it's usual to find their outings either Scout-heavy or Scout-only. They are private activities, though; just because it's their troopmates does not make it a Scout activity. (We have always made this very clear to the parents.)

[FrankJ]

One example: SM has a lake house & Jet skis. Son invites friends who happens to be patrol mates to lake for weekend. Dad might have a beer with dinner. No way a troop outing. Friend crashes jet ski--That is why you have insurance. BSA does not get involved.

Same house. SM hosts troop water sports weekend. Tour permit is filed. BSA policies are followed. Jet Skis stay on trailer. Beer stays in fridge. You can have a lot of fun with a ski boat.

[alex gregory]

I guess i'll weigh in here too..... I personally see nothing wrong with paintball. Our Troop does an annual paintball outing, although we specifically state that it is not under the auspices of scouting, and the boys are not to wear uniforms. Each paintball field has its own release form that the parents must sign, or their child cannot participate. We do not generate permission slips of our own, and needless to say, we do not fill out a tour permit for this activity. Parents are responsible for bringing their own boys or arranging transportation.

OK you BSA "rules weenies", jump right in! Make my day!

How is the above not a "wink-wink-nudge-nudge-troop-activity"?

The announcement is almost certainly made at a troop meeting, probably passed along the usual troop e-mail communication channels, and completely indistinguishable from all other troop outings. Fritz does not even cover his bases by insisting on each Scout (oops, I meant to say friend) being accompanied by a parent.

If you want your sons and their friends to participate in Paintball you cannot plan the outing on the troop's meter. Playing by the rules (even if you don't agree with all the rules) is a valuable life lesson, and one that I'm sorry to see Fritz has elected to ignore.