Training is What it is About

[wagionvigil]

With the advent of the Internet training has become easier. I really like that you can do youth protection on line and I think that more training will be on line in the future. I have taken several continuing ed classes on line and it worked out well. I found time here and ther to do some pages and I think BSA will eventually offer most of their training except out door and Wood Badge Online. Most of the WB courses in the NER are weekend courses now and it has help with attendance> However, at a recent Regional meeting they are now suggesting the Wood Badge Trained Scouters that have taken the New Course find a Powder Horn close to them and take it to supplement the Outdoor training . Having taken WB with Greenbar Bill as SM and Later in life TAking the Cub Trainers WB I always saw a mixture of the two happening. It took along time and it did.

[cballman]

some internet training is great but I think that we still need eye to eye training for most things because when you are training new leaders they have way to many questions to do online training. roundtable still has a good deal more stuff than is in the paper products because ALL new leaders ask more questions because they dont know. we as old foggies have to realize that we know this stuff but what about all the newbies. if I can teach 1 good leader tha how many kids have i helped? sounds like i am conceited or how ever you spell it but i do this for all my kids 2 by birth but many more in scouting, band and schools.

[JimmyD]

I can see new leader essentials becoming online in the near future. Then each council that would want to do it can have their own separate FAQ about council issues. As far as others go, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Guneukitschik]

I think they will make as much training as possible available online. National's goal is to have trained leaders and I think they will make it as easy as possible to get everyone trained...which means that a lot of training will probably be available online.

I also agree that there still needs to be some face to face training and the outdoor training is essential for new leaders.

[Lynda J]

On Line Youth Protection is fine for renewing. But the first time someone takes it should be in a class room setting. It took me about 15 minutes to do the online. No discussion, no interaction.
One of the YP classes I helped with one women thought we were lying when they talked about the leaders husband having a boy take his clothes off because he got paint on them. Her attitude was that child abuse was something that happen in low class families. That people that work with scouts wouldn't think of doing something like that. By the end of the class she was in tears because she had suddenly realized that it is in all classes of people and could be happening right next door.

[Beagle Scout]

" National's goal is to have trained leaders and I think they will make it as easy as possible to get everyone trained..."

I think that we should say that National's goal is to have "trained" leaders. Training has become more accessible but I haven't seen any improvement in the quality of the training or of the trainees. If anything, there might be a decrease in both. Many trainees seem to have the attitude, "Well, I can put up with this for a night and get it out of the way."

[Lynda J]

YPT on line is fine for renewing. I do not think it should be taken for the first time online. I think there is a need to see the film and have discussion periods during the film.
At one training I was helping with, one mother made the comment that child abuse only happens in low income families that don't "teach good values". After watching the film she was crying. Said she had no idea that things like that really happened to "regular kids". You can't get that from online training.

I spent maybe 25 minutes taking the online courst. A good YPT training will take a couple of hours. Depending on how much discussion happens.

[Beagle Scout]

low income families that don't "teach good values".

I'd say that many of the high income families don't teach good values.

[wagionvigil]

Beagle please re read what Lindaj Wrote

[cballman]

Beagle please reread before you start to talk about what someone has wrote. the lady lynda was talking to said that she only thought that things like the abuse and uncomfortable acts were from just low income families and she thought that idt didnt happen elsewhere. then after the YPT she seen that it happens in all classes of people. so IMHO this training was a success because it taught someone. Also the comment about the people that are doing the training was off base because My wife and I have been doing training now for about 5 years and to see what the people have done with their traing after the sessions have been very fulfulling and to see these same people once or twice a year and for them to remember the things you taught them still brings smiles to our face. so if you want to knock the trainers then if you know you could do better then volunter and teach. If not then quit your bellyaching.

[commish3]

"National's goal is to have trained leaders.."

Actually, and more specifically, nationals goal is to have 100% of all volunteers attend basic training in the first 90-days of membership.

I am sure neither national nor the volunteers who worked to put the training program together expect every leader to "be trained".

"Going to training" and "being trained" are two different things. Scouters who use the scouting methods are trained, they do what they were taught and expected to do.

You could hardly say that a lion who does not perform his expected actions (or attacks his keeper) is trained, regardless of how much training he has had. In the same vein, a scouter who does not perform the actions expected of them is not trained, regardless of how much training they have had.

But, it's a numbers game. The more volunteers we can get to training, the more trained volunteers we will end up with.

Many elements must come into play for training to take place. The BSA has developed an excellent program to follow and lots of resources to help you along, so the foundation is there for everyone.

The two hardest elements to control are the attitude and ability of the trainer, and the attitude and willingness of the trainee.

When a good volunteer has a good trainer, a trained leader will emerge.
"Every scout deserves a trained leader"...Baden-Powell

[Beagle Scout]

Where did I say anything about the people doing the training? They are really just pawns in the game. The are handed a curriculum and have to stick with it.

Wait a sec. . . I'll go back and re-read what I wrote. . . Nope, no negative comments about the trainers. However, according to commish3, I am very qualified to comment about trainers since I've been one for years, under the old system and the new.

"'Going to training' and 'being trained' are two different things."

Now that's a good thought. I'm going to put that in my collection of adages along with "Never do for a Scout what a Scout can do for himself."

(This post was edited by RWSmith.)

[wagionvigil]

Just for Fun What Changes would you like to see in training?

I remember when SM Training amounted to 4 roundtables and an over night. WHat we do today is much better. I also liked WB before it was changed a few years ago. Having been to Scout and Cub I learned a great deal from both. I am not sold on the new WB but I will wait and see.
Scouters that take WB are now encouraged to take POWDER HORN for the outdoor skills involved. More Training.

[Beagle Scout]

"Just for Fun What Changes would you like to see in training?"

One thing that I'd like to see is a test of some sort at the end. Right now, the guy who sits and doodles gets credit for training just like the guy who pays attention.

When I became a certified shooting instructor, I went through a bunch of classroom training about teaching, followed by specific training for the type of firearm, and at the end I had to take a test. It wasn't a rugged test but if you hadn't been paying attention, you couldn't pass.

I also think that the last style of Scoutmaster training was far better than what they offer now. The course took five evenings plus one Saturday outdoor session and ended with a Friday night through Sunday morn campout. We were broken into patrols on the first day and had to operate as patrols including creating a patrol flag, patrol neckerchief and patrol yell. The evening classroom sessions were like troop meeting with flag ceremonies, songs, and games. We also needed to have patrol meetings outside of the classroom. When all was said and done, we left the training with a great understanding of not just the program but also what the Scouts have to go through. My patrol mates and I stay in touch and shout our patrol yell across fields and parking lots when we see each other. This is true of many of the students that took that course.

I don't see any of that spirit coming out of the new system. The information might be there but the spirit isn't. I see a great difference between the adults in my troop that went through the old training vice those that went through the new. The old have a better understanding that Scouting is a game. The new seem to treat it as more of a process, like an assembly line.

Admittedly, my sample set is small but I have to go with what I see.

[commish3]

Scouters that take WB are now encouraged to take POWDER HORN for the outdoor skills involved.

That might be true in your council wagionvigil, but I do not recall seeing it in the trainers guide, and I know it was never mentioned in our course.

[wagionvigil]

It is being suggested on a region level and has been brought up at several area meetings I have attended recently.
AS far as the SM training described by Beagle scout that sounds more like a mini WB Course.

[Beagle Scout]

"AS far as the SM training described by Beagle scout that sounds more like a mini WB Course."

So? It produced enthusiastic and well trained Scouters. Isn't that what we want?

[RWSmith]

On Line Youth Protection is fine for renewing. But the first time someone takes it should be in a class room setting.

I agree, whole-heartedly.

[commish3]

There is a self-assessment tool on-line at www.scouting.org for most every position in the Scouting program. It is quite lengthy and tests you in several areas. Once you have completed it you will receive an evaluation of the three areas you are strongest in, the three areas you are weakest in, and the training course or courses recommended that will strengthen those three weakest areas. Since you register with your council location (not your name) the council recieves a report on which training is most needed in your vicinity and what areas the leaders test high in.

Like most self-assessment tools the results may surprise you, one way or another.

[riverwalk]

YPT is a great example of the online training options. But Lynda J is right on target with some of the comments. This should not be used for any first-timer, unless you need a second person trained quickly so as to attend an activity. Then I would suggest they later attend in person. One gets more interaction/answers from a real class setting. But I have used it for my refresher, and it's great....but I knew what to expect too.


Fast Start type trainings are a superb idea for new Leaders. Again, they will benefit from workshops where interaction occurs, but the online stuff will get their feet wet before taking on their responsibilities.