Only Three BORS per Year??

[ThunderingWind]

A Troop just moved to my church. They can not sell popcorn door to door due to local Boro rules (no girl scout cookies either).

They set up a table during our fellowship hour, were there in uniform and handed out a "History of Troop X" sheet. In one of the sections they stated they hold three BORs and COHs per year.

I find this offensive to my understanding of Scouting. It holds boys back.

Boy A wants to be Life. He gets his SMC one day after the BOR meet for that 1/3 of the year, he must now wait an extra 4 months Time In Grade (Star), Time in Service (six months as Star plus these new 4 months) until the next BOR. Based on their operation and papwerwork, his Date of Rank for Life will be the extra four months down the road when he gets his BOR. All based on his passing of course.

Should I really try to get them to change?

[jr56]

It would be of benefit for the boys, for obvious reasons, but realistically, if they are happy in their ignorance doing it this way, that is what they are going to do.

[Cowboy]

Change is difficult, and hard to bring about. That being said:
Yes, you should encourage the change. Approach it as something to help keep the boys interested and advancing, not something that they have been doing wrong. A BOR can be held any time and anywhere. We hold them at the drop of a hat, literally. A boy has his SMC (usually scheduled, but not always) and then asks for a BOR. Sometimes they ask in advance, but we try to make sure that there are always at least 3 TC members at every Troop meeting or outing. If it is not possible to have 3 at all functions, then maybe the committee needs to be beefed up? One final thought: It could be a "misprint". The person who wrote and or printed the flyer may have misunderstood or mis-stated the information. They may be lumping the BOR as part of the CoH. Meaning that they have more frequent BOR, but only 3 CoH per year.

[lifescoutforlife]

I would find out the facts first. If you look at our Troop calendar it says we only have 4 BOR"s a year and 4 COH's. They put the BOR's about 2 to 3 weeks before the COH's to try and have the boys get all the requirements done for there next rank in time so they can get reconized at the COH's. But our Troop has BOR's when ever a boy needs one not just the 4 that are listed on the calendar.

[evmori]

Do you know why they do this?

I can understand COH's every quarter but BOR's should be scheduled as needed.

[smtroop168]

Did you speak to any of the adults at the event? I wouldn't go nuts about this until I knew all the facts. Is this a well established troop? Size? Why did they move to your church? May be bigger issues than the number of BORs they hold.

Be careful or you'll be their new Advancment Chair.

[fritz1255]

Our Troop also has 3 BOR's/COH's per year. The dates are published at the beginning of the school year. It is (or should be) on the Scout to plan to have his requirements done before the BOR. Learning to plan around deadlines is part of growing up to be a responsible adult, which is the ultimate goal of the program.

[FrankJ]

Our Troop also has 3 BOR's/COH's per year. The dates are published at the beginning of the school year. It is (or should be) on the Scout to plan to have his requirements done before the BOR. Learning to plan around deadlines is part of growing up to be a responsible adult, which is the ultimate goal of the program.

I guess that is one way to make sure it takes at least a year to get to first class.

[razor_strop]

Learning to plan around deadlines is part of growing up to be a responsible adult, which is the ultimate goal of the program.

Actually, the aims of Scouting (the ultimate goals, if you will) are character development, citizenship training and developing physical, mental and emotional fitness, and the advancement program should accomodate this development. According to "Advancement Policies & Procedures", a troop committee should strive to hold at least monthly Boards of Review, and quarterly Courts of Honor. The questions your committee must ask itself are a) are they really doing their best to comply with published BSA policy with the current 3/yr BOR/COH schedule, and b) are they truly doing all they can to best accomodate the Scouts, or are they doing what is convenient for themselves?

[fritz1255]

Sorry if I offend the "rules weenies", but 3 BOR's and COH's per year is what we will continue to do, at least until a new leadership team comes on board at some point in the future. The Scouts will continue to plan around that schedule. And to anticipate the next question, no we have not ever had any 14-year-old Eagle Scouts, nor do we think that is necessarily a good thing.

[evmori]

Sorry if I offend the "rules weenies", but 3 BOR's and COH's per year is what we will continue to do, at least until a new leadership team comes on board at some point in the future. The Scouts will continue to plan around that schedule. And to anticipate the next question, no we have not ever had any 14-year-old Eagle Scouts, nor do we think that is necessarily a good thing.

Then you are denying the Scouts in your unit the opportunity to advance at their pace by forcing them to advance at your pace. It's not up to you to decide what age is appropriate for a Scout to earn Eagle.

[FrankJ]

First time I have been classed among the "rules weenies" As a method advancement is in the middle for me. Making an arbitrarily rigid structure forces scouts to move advancement to an higher level than it should be, unless your goal is to produce mindless bureaucrats. To me teaching adaption, flexibility, motivation & improvising is more important than keeping rigid schedules. YMMV

BTW: My troop does encourage 14 year old eagle thing, but we do not put road blocks up to prevent them either. They just have to meet the same requirements as the 17 year old eagles.

[fritz1255]

Oh my gosh, you folks are absolutely right! By only having three BOR's a year, we are scarring these boys for life. They will grow up to be nothing but mindless schedule-driven robots, totally incapable of functioning within normal society. We will disband the Troop Committee immediately and bring in another set of parents who I'm sure are chomping at the bit to take over. One question - will BSA insurance cover us from the inevitable lawsuits for the damage we have caused? Or did we miss the boat on that by failing to file a Tour Permit for every Committee Meeting?

[smtroop168]

Oh my gosh, you folks are absolutely right! By only having three BOR's a year, we are scarring these boys for life. They will grow up to be nothing but mindless schedule-driven robots, totally incapable of functioning within normal society. We will disband the Troop Committee immediately and bring in another set of parents who I'm sure are chomping at the bit to take over. One question - will BSA insurance cover us from the inevitable lawsuits for the damage we have caused? Or did we miss the boat on that by failing to file a Tour Permit for every Committee Meeting?

The BSA insurance will not cover those who are no longer registered because they were removed by the Scout Executive for failure to support the Mission and Values of the BSA.

To tell an excited 11 year old that he has to wait 4 months to get his Tenderfoot badge because the committee is too lazy to have an BOR is plain wrong and it is possible that this scout will not stay with the troop. Look at your council web site and think about whether your self imposed rules support the Advancement Principles:

"Each youth progresses at his or her own rate.
Advancement is not a competition among individual young people, but is an expression of their interest and participation in the program. Youth must be encouraged to advance steadily and set their own goals with guidance from their parents, guardians, or leaders."

One good thing for your scouts is that they will be the first ones to earn the Robotics MB when it comes out next year.

[fritz1255]

Thanks for the suggestion on the Robotics badge! Among the current merit badges, we were also going to offer:

1) Crime Prevention - so the boys can prevent the incoming Troop Committee from doing such heinous things to them
2) Metalwork - always a good skill for a robot to have
3) Disbiliites Awareness - so the boys can recognize and avoid disfunctional people such as ourselves in the future

Any other suggestions (within the framework of this family-oriented forum) are welcomed. Now what about that Tour Permit?

[smtroop168]

Since you don't care to follow the established BSA Advancement Book, you wouldn't follow TP guidance either.

I always ask unit leaders when they spout off on "how they do it", what are you trying to accomplish in keeping scouts from their goals? Your committee's goals appear to be to make sure they understand that you are in charge and they will be "obedient". I guess the Committee is missing the Scout Oath part about "Helping other people at all times"

I guess that if a scout couldn't have his Life BOR until 5 months before his 18th birthday which would preclude him from making Eagle, the committee's response would be too bad??? I'd love to help that scout with his appeal letter to National.

[evmori]

Oh my gosh, you folks are absolutely right! By only having three BOR's a year, we are scarring these boys for life. They will grow up to be nothing but mindless schedule-driven robots, totally incapable of functioning within normal society. We will disband the Troop Committee immediately and bring in another set of parents who I'm sure are chomping at the bit to take over. One question - will BSA insurance cover us from the inevitable lawsuits for the damage we have caused? Or did we miss the boat on that by failing to file a Tour Permit for every Committee Meeting?

Could be the best thing that happens to your unit. Currently it appears to be adult run when it should be boy run.

[jr56]

It always amazes me how some people can get all bent out of shape when you try to point out how the scouting program is supposed to be run (set up by the BSA, not me). Then claim how they are going to run things their way, even once they have been informed that it is incorrect. The purpose of this forum is to educate scouters on things they may be missing. If you are going to insist on not following BSA procedure, once you have been politely informed of the error of your ways, why are you even participating in an educational forum if you have no desire to achieve education.

[FrankJ]

The problem with looking at just one thing, is that it is the intangibles that are important. When teaching Webeloes to scout transitions we teach that you need to look at the whole troop. A troop rule like this would be a red flag, but the troop could have other redeeming benefits. On the other hand some people or looking at a highly regimented program.

If we only held boards every four months, it would have to be on a Sat. because it would take all day.

[smtroop168]

It always amazes me how some people can get all bent out of shape when you try to point out how the scouting program is supposed to be run (set up by the BSA, not me). Then claim how they are going to run things their way, even once they have been informed that it is incorrect. The purpose of this forum is to educate scouters on things they may be missing. If you are going to insist on not following BSA procedure, once you have been politely informed of the error of your ways, why are you even participating in an educational forum if you have no desire to achieve education.

Amen. I did notice that Fritz listed himself as the Committee Chair in a previous posting. His position on the number of BORs makes me even more concerned.

The problem with looking at just one thing, is that it is the intangibles that are important. When teaching Webeloes to scout transitions we teach that you need to look at the whole troop. A troop rule like this would be a red flag, but the troop could have other redeeming benefits. On the other hand some people or looking at a highly regimented program.

If we only held boards every four months, it would have to be on a Sat. because it would take all day.

Wonder what kind of BORs this troop runs? Retesting?

Oh my gosh, you folks are absolutely right! By only having three BOR's a year, we are scarring these boys for life. They will grow up to be nothing but mindless schedule-driven robots, totally incapable of functioning within normal society. We will disband the Troop Committee immediately and bring in another set of parents who I'm sure are chomping at the bit to take over. One question - will BSA insurance cover us from the inevitable lawsuits for the damage we have caused? Or did we miss the boat on that by failing to file a Tour Permit for every Committee Meeting?

Could be the best thing that happens to your unit. Currently it appears to be adult run when it should be boy run.

Problem Ed is this is one portion of the troop that is not boy-led. The Committee controls the BORs and obviously the SM as well since he should be pounding on the table and correcting this.