Only Three BORS per Year??

[Mrw]

With our 50 or so boys, BOR's just three times a year would be some really long days. We often have 10 or more in a month!

I have been recently accused of being a rule weenie for objecting to starting to require boys to present their projects to the entire troop committee and for objecting to requiring full uniforms for BOR's and these presentations. Fortunately our incoming and out-going SMs and the DAC all agree with me. What was disturbing to me was that the ones wanting to require this were the most recent Woodbadge trainees in the troop.

[smtroop168]

Wood Badge Graduates can be just as clueless about BSA policies as anyone else. I don't believe Wood Badge covers Advancement BOR procedures or goes into any depth on the Life to Eagle process either.

[FrankJ]

Wood badge graduates are supposed to be trained in their positions before going to Wood Badge. Wood badge is not about position specific training.

[Billiken]

We've got 32 active Scouts in our troop.
We have BORs the second Tuesday of every during the school year.

We did 5 the last night of summer camp in June.

Our committee is doing one next Monday so one of our 10 Scouts going to the Jamboree can attend as a Life Scout.
(Drove to his house to conduct the Scoutmaster Conference the other day.)

ADVANCEMENT - one of the 8 methods of Scouting.
Recognition of accomplishment builds self-confidence and should be done as soon as possible, not with less frequency than the changing of the seasons.

[evmori]

With our 50 or so boys, BOR's just three times a year would be some really long days. We often have 10 or more in a month!

I have been recently accused of being a rule weenie for objecting to starting to require boys to present their projects to the entire troop committee and for objecting to requiring full uniforms for BOR's and these presentations. Fortunately our incoming and out-going SMs and the DAC all agree with me. What was disturbing to me was that the ones wanting to require this were the most recent Woodbadge trainees in the troop.

Requiring full uniforms for a BOR is adding to the requirements. Just because people in your unit agree with you doesn't make it the correct thing to do.

smtroop168,

Wanna bet this is an adult run unit & the boys are just along for the ride?

[Mrw]

With our 50 or so boys, BOR's just three times a year would be some really long days. We often have 10 or more in a month!

I have been recently accused of being a rule weenie for objecting to starting to require boys to present their projects to the entire troop committee and for objecting to requiring full uniforms for BOR's and these presentations. Fortunately our incoming and out-going SMs and the DAC all agree with me. What was disturbing to me was that the ones wanting to require this were the most recent Woodbadge trainees in the troop.

Requiring full uniforms for a BOR is adding to the requirements. Just because people in your unit agree with you doesn't make it the correct thing to do.

smtroop168,

Wanna bet this is an adult run unit & the boys are just along for the ride?

You quite misunderstood that I was the one objecting to adding to the requirements....

We are a boy led troop, even when they don't do it all that well.

[evmori]

You quite misunderstood that I was the one objecting to adding to the requirements....

My bad! Sorry!

We are a boy led troop, even when they don't do it all that well.

I wasn't referring to your unit MRW.

[smtroop168]

Wood badge graduates are supposed to be trained in their positions before going to Wood Badge.

Exactly!

[fritz1255]

To expand on a quote that is attributed to George Burns, it's a real shame that the only people who truly know how to run this country are wasting their time cutting hair, driving taxis, and posting on MeritBadge.net forums.

[evmori]

Wood Badge Graduates can be just as clueless about BSA policies as anyone else. I don't believe Wood Badge covers Advancement BOR procedures or goes into any depth on the Life to Eagle process either.

When I took Wood Badge it didn't even mention this stuff.

This should be incorporated into basic training.

[smtroop168]

To expand on a quote that is attributed to George Burns, it's a real shame that the only people who truly know how to run this country are wasting their time cutting hair, driving taxis, and posting on MeritBadge.net forums.

No actually it's a real shame that people who are "running a troop" in one of the nation's largest and most prominent values-based youth development organizations and are in a position to know better don't subscribe to following the rules.

[Fred Johnson]

I'm afraid that our troop is on the complete other side. Our troop oscillates between 30 to 50 scouts over the years. When a scout needs a SMC, he asks the scoutmaster. As soon as the scoutmaster can fit it in, it gets done. Almost always, the same meeting. Then, the scoutmaster tells the scout to ask one of the troop committee advancement persons for a board of review. (The scoutmaster usually tells the troop committee too to expect the scout. But, it is up to the scout.) When contacted by the scout, that committee member finds other committee members. If possible (and it usually is), we hold the board of review the same night.

We view the board of review having three purposes. #1 Make sure everything is done (paperwork issue usually... are things signed off... do we have the records completed... ). #2 Inquire and encourage advancement and participation. #3 Quality control of how the troop is functioning.

We don't view the BOR as a pass / fail situation. It just is and we serve the scout best by being responsive to their requests. Plus, we want to let that scout advance as soon as possible so that he can start working on his next advancement. We don't want the scout sitting in limbo waiting for something outside his control and unable to get credit for leadership and service for his next rank.

[jr56]

Sounds pretty good to me.

[evmori]

Excellent way to handle it Fred. My only comment is a BOR is a pass/fail requirement and Scouts can fail.

[smtroop168]

Fred's unit isn't on the complete other side. There is only one side and they have it right.

OBTW: The BSA doesn't use the word "fail" it says "not ready to advance" in the Advancement Policies and Procedures Book.

[Fred Johnson]

We view it as the BOR is suspended until the specific issues are addressed. Usually correct missing signatures or if they are a few days short on leadership or something similar.

There isn't much to fail a scout for during a BOR. We really can't judge or retest on scout spirit. If it's signed off, it's signed off. Same with scout oath and law. If the scout can't repeat it, we help them through it. The scout had to complete those requirements as part of Tenderfoot. We would only suspend a BOR for oath and law if it is a Tenderfoot BOR and the book reflected never having been signed off for oath and law.

There are extreme situations. Usually, those are best handled outside the BOR and on a timely basis.

[Cowboy]

I have seen this subject come up before and I always have to ask: If SMC is not pass/fail (which is is NOT) and a BoR is not pass/fail, where is the adult oversight on advancement? Just having things checked off in the book does not mean that the boy is ready for advanceemnt. Who signs the book in the Troop? Many Troops have SPL or ASPL signing requirements. SMC can not be P/F, but to turn the BoR into a rubber stamp is wrong.

[Mrw]

In our troop, the SMC is used to check that the boy really has the right things signed in the book. And if he is clueless, the SM asks him to come back the next week with a little more practice under his belt on the subject at had. We do ask about sign-offs though. But if we see an older boy signing things he should not have, we do not hold the younger one back, we talk to the older one about when he should sign stuff. (First Class and above boys may sign requirements for the first three ranks except for first aid. We find them to really be very fair about making sure the things are earned without adding.)

The BOR is also not a rubber stamp. There have been a few boys in the years I have been involved in the troop that we did not pass off a boy on a BOR and asked him to come back. (Since my now 24 yr old was 11). The one I remember in particular was a boy going for Life rank and he had a very grumpy attitude and was quite uncommunicative. He was asked to come back in a few weeks when he was in a frame of mind to talk and was much better the next time around.

It is not unusual for us to ask a nervous newer scout who cannot recite the oath or law for us to study some more and come recite it for just one of us the next week. Not as a condition of getting the rank, but because we think he should be able to do so and talking to just one adult is easier for them. And we know that the boys were asked the same thing in a SMC shortly before the BOR and knew it.

[evmori]

In our troop, the SMC is used to check that the boy really has the right things signed in the book. And if he is clueless, the SM asks him to come back the next week with a little more practice under his belt on the subject at had.

Are you saying the Scoutmaster doesn't sign off on the Scoutmaster Conference?

[cballman]

MRW our Troop does pretty much the same thing. We also have the kids do a BOR for merit badges. It is not a pass/fail thing. We do that so we can get the paperwork completed AND find out if there is a problem with the counsler. We have parents get upset because the kids have to board for a merit badge but it is more than that. We have kids that have never had to talk to anybody other than their parents. We ask the kids what they liked about the badge, what they didnt like about the badge, and would they use that MBC again or tell someone else to use them or not. So we can hear from a young mans point of view what the problem was or if they loved the way the MBC taught and worked with them. It works for us because we have close to 60 ACTIVE boys in our troop. When you have a lot of young men that is in all stages of rank advancement it is a job for a bunch of people including the parents. Try to get the parents to step up and see what will happen. Sometimes it is wild and fun but yes it is a lot of work. I have been involved since my son crossed over into the Troop. He is now over 20 years old. I still enjoy working with the kids. I feel that I am blessed to be able to still enjoy the kids and want to help them.