Board of Review Composition

[agdparker]

I read over on USScouts.org about the BoR composition. In it, it says that "Relatives or guardians may not serve as members of a Scout's Board of Review." (Emphasis added) I don't have my Advancement binder anymore, but I had it in my head that although it was not ideal, there was no outright prohibition against family members serving on a boy's BoR. I could be mixing this up with the MB counselor rules, though.

In my situation, we're in a small troop and I'm having to work pretty hard to even get 3 committee members there. My brother in law is registered, but I'm not sure how immediate the family member rule may be. My son finally finished First Class and I want to get this done. The first set of BoR's (last year) that I saw going on only had 2 people in them - The AC and one of the ASM's. When I mentioned the need for 3 people, it seemed like news to them (sigh).

So, what is the exact rule on family members on the BoR? Can leaders (SM, ASM's, etc) be on the BoR?

Thanks in advance!

[agdparker]

Hmm, found this link in another thread:
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Boards_of_Review

After a Scout has completed all requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, and Life ranks, or an Eagle Palm, he appears before a board of review. This board of review is made up of at least three and not more than six members of the troop committee. One member serves as chairman, usually the committee member responsible for advancement. Unit leaders, assistant unit leaders, relatives, or guardians may not serve as members of a Scout's board of review.

So, I guess that answers my question, but it also includes unit leaders, which the USScouts link seems a little more lenient on.

For his Second Cass board of review, they did include my BiL on the BoR committee, so is it invalid? How should I proceed?

Edit: Because even after umpteen years of school, I guess I still can't spell.

[FrankJ]

Pretty much once the rank is officially recorded, it will not be taken away. Especially for things beyond the scouts control such as selection of BOR members. I would not worry about it too much. Especially since you are trying to do the right thing going forward.

[Nuts4Scouts]

If you want to know the correct BSA policies you are much better off if you go to a BSA source, instead of private, non-BSA, sites.

From the BSA National web site -

The 2009 Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures -

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

Page 29 -

"This board of review is made up of at least three and not more than six members of the troop committee. One member serves as chairman, usually the committee member responsible for advancement. A Scout's unit leaders, assistant unit leaders, relatives, or guardians may not serve as members of his board of review."

The emphasis is BSA's, and means that it is a BSA rule.

BSA Board of Review Training -

http://scouting.org/Training/Adult/Supp ... ining.aspx

Who Conducts the Board of Review?

In almost every case, the board of review is conducted by at least three members of the troop committee. The Scoutmaster and assistant Scoutmasters are not members of the board of review. The Scoutmaster can introduce the Scout to the board members and may sit with him to hear the board's decision, but should not be present during the actual board of review. Obviously, the Scout's parent should not serve on his board of review panel.

All boards must constitute at least three and not more than six members who are all 21 years of age or older.

As Frank stated, there is no worry that the rank will be taken away. However, since you are a small Troop, your Committee Chair should work to get as many parents as possible registered as Committee members. Your CC should also consider members of your Charter Organization who do not have boys in the Troop. Make sure your COR knows how important this is.

The reason for BSA's stand on this is that a BOR is as much a review of the Troop's program as it is of the Scout. Scouts will feel more at ease talking about any problem they are having with the Troop if they are NOT talking to one of their Troop leaders. As for relatives, you want to avoid any possible potential for accusations of favoritism. A parent/relative has a vested interest in how well their Scout does.

[smtroop168]

The BSA doesn't want Leaders and Relatives on BORs because it is the Troop Committee's job to have an independent assessment of the scout devoid of any other influences.

Your CC and COR need to get together and figure out how to make this work for your scouts in accordance with BSA rules. A lot has been said on the forum about BORs on demand, which I agree with, but if you need to set fixed times (at the Comm Mtgs, every third Monday etc) for a time until you get more folks, then go that route.

I love our site and I think we give our the best info (save Paul Wolf's advancement info on usscouts.org). The BSA would serve itself well to clone Paul's stuff. Other "Advice" on other sites can be and has been outright wrong so stick to the National Site for official stuff and to use for friendly advice.

[agdparker]

Thanks to everyone who took time to respond. I spoke with one of the ASM's tonight and apparently I'm the only parent registered. I spoke with the COR and we're going to fix that. I also asked the COR to sit on the BoR (I think that's allowed?). I've also convinced the AC to move to TroopMaster and that should help with multiple issues in the troop right now. Now if I can just get them to go to leader-specific training...One step at a time.

[wagionvigil]

Thanks to everyone who took time to respond. I spoke with one of the ASM's tonight and apparently I'm the only parent registered. I spoke with the COR and we're going to fix that. I also asked the COR to sit on the BoR (I think that's allowed?). I've also convinced the AC to move to TroopMaster and that should help with multiple issues in the troop right now. Now if I can just get them to go to leader-specific training...One step at a time.

They are not going to have an option very soon either be trained or not registered simple as that

[WVBeaver05]

They are not going to have an option very soon either be trained or not registered simple as that

With the new emphasis on YPT, looks like that part has already started. Anyone notice the new recharter packets? Each adult now has a indication of YPT Y or N. I expect and assume that an attempt to recharter a N will be rejected.

YiS

[FrankJ]

For this recharter they are only requiring direct contact & new registrations to be trained. At the end of the online registration the document will provide a list of leaders still needing training. You will have to include YPT card for those leaders. Having current on recharter day YPT cards for all leaders in the packet would be good insurance.

The Nov training update on scouting.org has some information on this.

I believe this to be correct, but it is also a moving target. What will be important is how your registrar interprets the rules on the day you charter is processed.

[smtroop168]

Thanks to everyone who took time to respond. I spoke with one of the ASM's tonight and apparently I'm the only parent registered. I spoke with the COR and we're going to fix that. I also asked the COR to sit on the BoR (I think that's allowed?). I've also convinced the AC to move to TroopMaster and that should help with multiple issues in the troop right now. Now if I can just get them to go to leader-specific training...One step at a time.

The COR can be dual registered as the Committee Chair but no other positions. If he's not, then technically he's not a Committee Member and does not serve on BORs.

Take a look at your charter and see who's actually on there.

[smtroop168]

For this recharter they are only requiring direct contact & new registrations to be trained. At the end of the online registration the document will provide a list of leaders still needing training. You will have to include YPT card for those leaders. Having current on recharter day YPT cards for all leaders in the packet would be good insurance.

The Nov training update on scouting.org has some information on this.

I believe this to be correct, but it is also a moving target. What will be important is how your registrar interprets the rules on the day you charter is processed.

We just told all our adults to get it done prior to recharter regardless of position. The one who didn't, we dropped. I'll let Wagion guess who that was.

[agdparker]

The COR can be dual registered as the Committee Chair but no other positions. If he's not, then technically he's not a Committee Member and does not serve on BORs.

Take a look at your charter and see who's actually on there.

Hmmm....Back to square one. I guess we'll be registering some more of the parents before we can do the BoR.

[FrankJ]

When your recharter. Just add the COR as a committee member. (I am pretty sure you can make him just a CM) If you do it as part of the recharter, you will not have to fill out a new app. In any case the COR is really part of the troop committee registered that way or not. I would not have a problem having him sit on a BOR even if that violates the letter of the rule. Only the most dogmatic would make an issue of it.

[agdparker]

When your recharter. Just add the COR as a committee member. (I am pretty sure you can make him just a CM) If you do it as part of the recharter, you will not have to fill out a new app. In any case the COR is really part of the troop committee registered that way or not. I would not have a problem having him sit on a BOR even if that violates the letter of the rule. Only the most dogmatic would make an issue of it.

They have already rechartered and I'm not sure if I can get a copy or not. Unless I can find somewhere that explicitly lists the COR as a member of the committee, I'd feel less than trustworthy, so better to just do it right.

[smtroop168]

One of the COR's jobs is to find people for the commitee.

Also the Charter is not a Top Secret Document.

[Nuts4Scouts]

What is your position with the Troop?

[FrankJ]

You can have the COR turn in an app that makes him a committee member as well as the COH. It does not have to be done during recharter. It is just easier that way. BTW you troop has 3 committee members at least on paper because you cannot recharter with less than 3.

I checked our troops charter. Our COH is co-list as a committee member so that is legal. The requirement is also on the adult app. What a silly place to look. Too bad, he really wants to be an ASM.

Committee member really is one of those jobs that is only a hour a week. So it is a good entry level position.

[wagionvigil]

For this recharter they are only requiring direct contact & new registrations to be trained. At the end of the online registration the document will provide a list of leaders still needing training. You will have to include YPT card for those leaders. Having current on recharter day YPT cards for all leaders in the packet would be good insurance.

The Nov training update on scouting.org has some information on this.

I believe this to be correct, but it is also a moving target. What will be important is how your registrar interprets the rules on the day you charter is processed.

We just told all our adults to get it done prior to recharter regardless of position. The one who didn't, we dropped. I'll let Wagion guess who that was.

Sash Lady?

[agdparker]

What is your position with the Troop?

I am a registered Committee Member.

You can have the COR turn in an app that makes him a committee member as well as the COH. It does not have to be done during recharter. It is just easier that way. BTW you troop has 3 committee members at least on paper because you cannot recharter with less than 3.

...

I am not sure how we're currently registered, except that I'm an MC and 2 other people are on the committee. Maybe I'll down to the council and check. Hopefully they'll talk to me.

[Fred Johnson]

I agree. The BSA docs are the best source to get the answer. And, I love knowing the BSA scouting files has the PDF online for us to refer too. I've been waiting for that for years!

A key point is understanding the why. By the time the scout has reached the BOR, there has already been plenty of quality checks to see that the scout completed the requirements. And the BOR is the final double check of those requirements. But the reason for no parents, guardians or unit leaders (those with face time with the scouts) is that the BOR is the only quality control point where the troop gets feedback from the scout on the troop's performance. It's hard to get that information out of the scout, but it is where you can learn about a boring program, bullies, clicks, unfair rules, bad habits, abuse and/or bad leaders. Usually, the scouts don't explicitly say anything. It's the between-the-line information that you need to look for that will improve your troop.