What is a service project or service hours?

[SN95GT50]

Trust me, I don't sign off or approve ANYTHING for my son. The reason I say I walk a thin line is that I have an opinion, like all of us, and when expressing my opinion with the Troop I must make sure that my opinion is not swayed by how it will affect my son. It is very important to me that my sons achievements are his and that they are not lessend because he is my son. Occassionally, my son will complain that I hold him to a higher standard than other Scouts, I always explain to him that I do and that he should get used to it.

John

[smtroop168]

What position are you in the troop? I saw someone post you were an ASM, but I never saw you post that.

[AquilaNegra2]

#2 and #3 definitely not. Knowing our SM, #1 would be a "definitely not" as well. Especially for the Star and Life ranks, his opinion is that they should be service to the community, and something the Scout otherwise would not have done (he makes boys who serve regularly somewhere seek out other opportunities for Life and Star credit.)

EVERY community has volunteer opportunities. Instead of wasting effort trying to get this approved, have him take a trip to a local senior center and volunteer to read. Or find his local noxious weed organization and pull weeds for a day. Or go through a community organization or church (they recommend where) and shovel snow.

IMHO, community service should show Scouts in a positive light TO THE COMMUNITY.

[Fred Johnson]

The requirement for both is "service to others" and/or take part in a "service project". BSA requirements for these do not mention "community service". Reading it as "community service" where it does not state that creates a failure gate for the scout that can block advancement. That's not our job.

I agree with the ideal of "community service". We just can't add that as a requirement where it's not called out.

( In my view, the key question is: does the scout get something out of it personally? Money into scout account. Equipment they can use. Then I'd agree no. If it is funds to help send other scouts on a high adventure or to pay for some part of the troop program that the scout does not participate in, then to me it's a scoutmaster's judgment call. )

[Quailman]

Maybe this shoud be a new thread, but what about double-dipping? Last week a scout helped place door hangers in the neighborhood for the Scouting for Food program. Afterwards, he asked me to sign a form so he could get credit for the service hours at his school. Apparently his school requires a certain level for a program or maybe for everyone. I have no problem signing it, though I'll bet there are SMs who would not want to let him take credit at school and for rank.

This young man has plenty of hours, and is there to help at every eagle project. As I type this I just remembered that I forgot to e-mail the advancement chair of the hours from last Saturday. I shall do that now.

I think his school requires a whole lot more hours than any rank or merit badge requirement in scouting.

[Mrw]

Our local high school requires 40 hours for graduation. My younger son did 5 week-long mission trips in addition to scouting service and other church service. I signed a paper stating he had done 40 hours for his Eagle project about a month before graduation so he would indeed graduate. He had done the project at age 15!

In his view, turning in papers just to prove he had done service was not important and he was not impressed by the kids who turned in paperwork for many more times the amount required. He saw that as pretentious and truly felt that service is done for the sake of helping others and not just to toot your own horn by bragging.

[FrankJ]

At least at our school, the school does not specify where the hours come from. The general intent is that they will be in service of some organization. So why not the boy scouts? Not really double dipping at all.

BSA is doing the same thing with JTE. While it you should not have false pride about these things, not a bad idea to let others unfamiliar with the program know the value it brings to the community.

[WeeWillie]

What authority does your public school district presume to have to impose community service as a condition for graduation? The state has no authority to compell anyone to work unless they are in jail, and there are restrictions regarding that too!

[wagionvigil]

Pa requires a project of some type. Most districts require a Public Service project of some sort. Also the students must start planning this during their sophomore year. They steps that must be completed by certain dates etc. Failure to complete or to do the project will result in non graduation. Each District is different in what they require etc. But they are all within the state guidelines. A friend(former scout of mine) is a Principal in a district and he will count Eagle projects if the scout does it within the time frame of what the district has set up.

[FrankJ]

Probably the same authority it has to require 4 years of English. (or any other subject for that matter). It would go under the heading of good citizenship.

In Ga, at least, it is not a graduation requirement. At my son's school it get you a service cord & a gold star on your permanent record.

[wagionvigil]

IN PA it is a Requirement to Graduate.

[Bill Pitcher]

it's a requirement in NY also! State Bd. of Ed. sets the graduation requirements.

[SN95GT50]

What position are you in the troop? I saw someone post you were an ASM, but I never saw you post that.

I have 3 roles: ASM, Advancement Chair (mainly because I maintain TroopMaster) and most important Father.

John

[lifescoutforlife]

5.While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) The project plan must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your Scoutmaster and troop committee, and the council or district before you start. You must use the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, BSA publication No. 512-927 , in meeting this requirement.


This is from the new book and it says "The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting" Should? How gray it that?

We have boys that are all Star Scouts that are working on a building at camp and are putting in major hours ( 5 to 15 hours) almost every weekend for the last month and some people are wondering if Star and Life service hours would count for this work.

[Mrw]

The language you quoted is specific to the Eagle service project. The service hours for Star are not included in that prohibition. The service hours the Life Scouts are putting in on the camp building would not count for a ESLP as A) it is for a scout camp and B) it does not appear to be a single boy planned and led project.

Our troop would have no issue crediting Star scouts with their work for their advancement to Life.

[FrankJ]

This is from the new book and it says "The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting" Should? How gray it that?

As MRW says that is only for an Eagle service project. As for as the "should' goes, I expect most councils would interpret that pretty close to a "shall".

I do know of a few eagle projects the had the net effect of benefiting scouting though. And no not my troop & I had nothing to do with them.

[lifescoutforlife]

I understand that life scouts must do a Eagle project of there own. I was just stating what the book said. And I just wanted others thoughts about the project hours for the Star scouts because people were told "rumors" that no service hours for any rank could benefit Boy Scouts in any way.

[RWSmith]

If the particular type of service hours are in any way iffy, and the Scout involved is your son, run it past the SM for verification. It is still the SM's call. Asking the SM for input will "broaden the line" that the ASM dad is walking, and removes any appearance of favoritism.

If the son, or any other Scout, is unhappy with the number of hours approved, as they have already discussed the issue at the time with the person signing off on the hours, the Scout should still go to the SM for any further discussion.

Ah... (and, sorry for the late reply)... well said, Nuts.

[smtroop168]

This is from the new book and it says "The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting" Should? How gray it that?

What "new book" are you referring to?

[RWSmith]

5.While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) The project plan must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your Scoutmaster and troop committee, and the council or district before you start. You must use the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, BSA publication No. 512-927, in meeting this requirement.

This is from the "new book"* and it says "(The project should benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.)" Should? How gray it that? [Emphasis added.]

We have boys that are all Star Scouts that are working on a building at camp and are putting in major hours (5 to 15 hours) almost every weekend for the last month and some people are wondering if Star and Life service hours would count for this work.

First, you make an excellent point... about the dreaded use of the word "should" in requirements. Ambiguous... to say the least.

(*) Along those lines (ambiguity)... I'm going to assume (ah-hem) you meant "the book" being from the Boy Scout Handbook, 12th Edition (2010 Printing). So, here goes:

• The Boy Scout Handbook (BSH) is only revised once it's reached a point where a major re-write becomes necessary. (There have been only 12 editions over the past hundred years, right?)
• However!... while a lot of Scout(er)s tend to think of the Boy Scout Requirements (BSR) --published annually-- is pretty much just for MBs updates, the Rank requirements are also updated annually in the BSR. The Rank requirements in the BSR supersede those in the BSH.

A quick glance at the 2011 BSR shows...

"(The project must benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.)"

So, that problem's been "fixed."

=================

Remember, as previously noted:

• this only applies to an ESLSP; and
• it has nothing whatsoever to do with 2C, Star & Life candidates service hours.

Follow-up post...

....I was just stating what the book said. And I just wanted others thoughts about the project hours for the Star scouts because people were told "rumors" that no service hours for any rank could benefit Boy Scouts in any way. [Emphasis added.]

That's just crap! As WV would say, these type leaders need to get with the program, or get the boot!

"Service hours" for 2C, Star & Life can "benefit" Scouting. Period. (See multiple references previously noted in this topic.)