Board of Review

[Lynda J]

Just need to pop off some steam. We had BOR last night. We have a new scout whose father "made eagle at 17". Ok. Well he wanted to sit on the board. According to the discription on BOA. It is not a retest of the skills but should be more about the scouts scouting ability live by the scout code.
This guy quized each boy. Made them tie knots, had them discribe how to get out of smoke filled room. He turned down almost every boy. The other members of the board couldn't control him. I am not as much angry about them being turned down as I am that this guy thinks he knows everything about scouting. I explained to him after the meeting that BOA was not a test. He informed me that if he is sitting on a board he will run it how he sees fit. Needless to say our Committee Chair has on intentions of having him sit on another board.
Feel better. Just had to rant.

[mrsrayzor]

Glad you could vent. You have good reason. Your committee chair needs to hold boards for those boys again so they can have a real one. He/she needs to get some documentation/guidelines together for all the members sitting on a board so they have an idea of what their responsibility is.

In my four years in our troop we've only had one boy 'fail'. It's not something that you would take lightly and should only happen with good cause.

At the risk of repeating myself and many others here, training is a big key.

Good luck.

DRay
Committee Chair

[Scouting179]

Lynda J:

My first question is: Why does this "eagle scout dad" thinks he can run the BORs his way in the first place? He is obviously not the Committee Chairman. Is he the Advancement Chairman? If he is an SM, ASM, or parent of a candiadate at a BOR, he isn't even supposed to be on the BOR. If he is a comittee member, he can be on the BOR, but he obviously needs to study up on what a BOR is all about. You are absolutely right in that it is a review and not a retest. Did the BOR chair try to control him?

Turning down a Scout for any rank is appealeable and the scout is to be informed right away of his deficiency(ies), what to do to fix them, a time frame to fix them, and followed up with a written letter. Generally, appeals are only made in the cases of Eagle Rank and Eagle Palms. Turning down a Scout should not be taken lightly. If these BORs were appealed, every one would probably win. BORs should see where the Scout is headed, his goals, and ensure that he did everything he was supposed to (like did he actually do his troop job or did some well meaning ASM just sign it off without checking, etc).

For our troop, I have some binders with sample questions and guidelines for each rank that I use for new BOR members.

[Lynda J]

Monday night we are having another BOR. And believe me this guy won't sit on it. The reason the CC was not sitting on the board for the entire evening was her son was one going for his 1st. Class. He is also one that he turned down. He also took almost 45 minutes to do one board.
She informed the Board that they needed to put in writting the reasons for not passing the boys and that letter will be given to the Scout Master.

As far as why he things he has the right. Guess because he made Eagle at 17.
He will sit on no other boards. He has also signed up for about 6 merit badges. Don't think he will get many takers.

The SM will be back next week and these boys and one more will redo with another boards. Thing is the boys know the material. All have been through BOR before. I know that they simply weren't expecting to have to take a test.

[Scouting179]

As far as why he things he has the right. Guess because he made Eagle at 17.

There has got to be more to it than this. I made Eagle at 16 and I certainly don't have that attitude. My guess it's a personality trait/issue.

[t305spl]

Definately a trait. I know a lot of people with that trait. They see it done therefore they think they could do it without realizing that it is harder than it looks. Dont completely take him off of doing BOR's. Put him on all of them and teach him how it is really done. Show him the ropes then let him run with the new info. Its hard to find adults that are that willing to do it. My guess is he just needs to be shown how to do it. If he keeps it up then excuse him from them. But dont give away someone whos willing and has had previous scouting experiences. Of course if it dosent want to learn how its really done, then he has no place on a BOR.

[RWSmith]

Put him on all of them and teach him how it is really done. Show him the ropes then let him run with the new info. It's hard to find adults that are that willing to do it. My guess is he just needs to be shown how to do it. If he keeps it up then excuse him from them.

Good point. He probably hasn't sat on a BOR since he was a kid, on the other side of the table... Plus, he's probably only doing exactly what he was taught... way back then.

It is a shame though; that those BORs had to be wrecked like that.

[Lynda J]

He has been in scouting for years. Was the Cub Master for his sons pack. It has a masters in education and is a principal of a local school. But he is a bulley. To be honest I think our boys would be better off without him on the BOR.
This guy pulled out his badge requirement book and questioned one boy going for Star on some of the requirements on two of his merit badges he had done. I don't think he will change his attitude and don't think the boys should have to suffer.

[BM_Crawford]

Yea I agree with you Lynda I thought the BoR was for scout ethics and the conference was more skills related...

[t305spl]

Yes thats true but as RWSmith said he probabily hasnt sat on a BOR in awhile. As we all know Cub scouts and Boy Scouts are very different. He should be taught. Maybe you should hold a "perfect BOR" meeting to teach everyone how a BOR should be completed correctly. Dont single him out im sure it will be a good refresher for everyone. I would hate to see a person willing to work in scouting not used.

[West]

I will, on occasion, ask a couple skills questions during the Board of Review. Passing of failing dosn't depend on if they can answer. The only reason for the questions is to get an idea of what the strengths and weakness of our program are. If all the kids freeze when I ask them to tie a knot, we need to fix something. It dosn't mean they fail the BoR though.

[Scouting179]

It sounds to me like this guy's is more suited to being an ASM.

[Lynda J]

SM called last night. Seems this guy "informed" him that he needs to start spending half the troop meeting working on merit badges, because his son isn't getting his badges completed. (has 15 incmomplete). SM informed him that that wasn't going to happen. It is his son's responsibility to complete his badges not the troops to see to it he does it. We do a few badges as a troop. Personal fitness, Camping, Rifle and Shotgun(have a dad that is an NRA instructor and BSA instructor.) Now we do have workshops from time to time if the PLC requests it. The boys also know that if they are working on a badge and have a problem they can contact any of the leaders for assistance.
So for now we will do another BOR Monday night. We have two other boys that are ready and will redo the ones that were turned down. He actually maked their books on what they needed to know before they could "come for another board of review." His words according to one of the other members of the board.

[Scouting179]

This guy is a trip. I'm glad the SM stood up to him.

I don't know about in your unit, but in ours the SM is supposed to approve all MBs being started. This keeps boys from getting too many partials, and I think 15 is way too many.

This guy should get his son to get off his....., not the troop. His son should contact the MB counselors, not this guy.

Just my 1.75 cents.

[Lynda J]

SM called last night. Seems this guy "informed" him that he needs to start spending half the troop meeting working on merit badges, because his son isn't getting his badges completed. (has 15 incomplete). SM informed him that that wasn't going to happen. It is his son's responsibility to complete his badges not the troops to see to it he does it. We do a few badges as a troop. Personal fitness, Camping, Rifle and Shotgun(have a dad that is an NRA instructor and BSA instructor). The boys also know that if they are working on a badge and have a problem they can contact any of the leaders for assistance.
So for now we will do another BOR Monday night. We have two other boys that are ready and will redo the ones that were turned down. He actually maked their books on what they needed to know before they could "come for another board of review." His words according to one of the other members of the board.

[Lynda J]

Know the SM will be very upset. This guy also wants to spend part of our troop meeting working on badges. Because his son has so many started and not completed. It is his son's responsibility to complete his badges not the troops to see to it he does it. We do a few badges as a troop. Personal fitness, Camping, Rifle and Shotgun(have a dad that is an NRA instructor and BSA instructor). The boys also know that if they are working on a badge and have a problem they can contact any of the leaders for assistance.
So for now we will do another BOR Monday night. We have two boys that are ready and will redo the ones that were turned down. He actually maked their books on what they needed to know before they could "come for another board of review." His words according to one of the other members of the board.

[Scouting179]

I'm glad your SM stood up to him. It is the Scout's job, not the troop's, finish MBs and contact the counselors. The son, not the dad, should be doing this. In our troop the SM is to approve all MB starts so that you don't see things like 15 partials from one kid, which I feel is way too many. About 6-7 is the max most kids can handle.

[mrsrayzor]

Can a scout be denied to start a MB even if he has 50 partials?

DRay
Committee Chair

[riverwalk]

well of course he is (unless his "claim" can't be verified). But that isn't what the Troop has to address. Nor Boards, Merit Badges, proper Uniforming, menu planning, ropework......these are like the distracters in a test question. The issue is the Dad being allowed to interfere/obstruct Troop Ops. I hope Dad wants to attend meetings and activities, volunteer to be a Scouter, function in the role assigned responsibilities require of him. The Committee best channel daddy's enthusiasm to another area. Regardless of his background(s) and abilities, each person is not suited for certain roles. Even in my own Industry, there are people that just can't play well with others. They may also be the only one that "doesn't get it".

Sorry for another rant. We "fired" our first Cubmaster (that we made CM because he was an Eagle) very early on, as we found him to be a terrible choice for the role. Being a "legal Eagle" is not permission to take command.

[RWSmith]

Can a scout be denied to start a MB even if he has 50 partials?

Short answer? No. Long answer? No, again.