Board of Review

[RWSmith]

We "fired" our first Cubmaster (that we made CM because he was an Eagle) very early on, as we found him to be a terrible choice for the role. Being a "legal Eagle" is not permission to take command.

Surprisingly, it has been my experience that those who stayed in long enough to make it to 2nd Class, but never made it past Life, make the best Scoutmasters. I don't know why. I realize that's a very opinionated statement; but, I sure have believed it for a long time; and to this day, it seems to remain evident to me.

Case in point... The pilot of the Space Shuttle Columbia, William C. McCool, was an Eagle, with mega palms, I might add; but, the Commander, Rick D. Husband, only made it to 2nd Class.

Hey! I think I'll start a poll.

[Scouting179]

Can a scout be denied to start a MB even if he has 50 partials?

Short answer? No. Long answer? No, again.

So you teach him it's okay to start dozens of things and never finish them? Not a good life lesson.

[Scouting179]

Surprisingly, it has been my experience that those who stayed in long enough to make it to 2nd Class, but never made it past Life, make the best Scoutmasters. I don't know why. I realize that's a very opinionated statement; but, I sure have believed it for a long time; and to this day, it seems to remain evident to me.

Case in point... The pilot of the Space Shuttle Columbia, William C. McCool, was an Eagle, with mega palms, I might add; but, the Commander, Rick D. Husband, only made it to 2nd Class.

Hey! I think I'll start a poll.

You cite one example. You've probably seen more non-Eagles as good SMs because there are more people that don't make it than do.

Some highly accomplished Eagles: Steven Spielberg, CNO ADM Elmo Zumwalt, Gen William Westmoreland.

For a more complete list, see my web site at: http://members.cox.net/scouting179/Eagle%20Famous.htm

I think it all depends on the individual.

[Lynda J]

We are going to look into doing a little different stragity on BOR. The CC and I talked last night and we think it might be a really good idea to start getting more community involvement on BOR. We are going to talk to the SM about it Monday night. Our Mayor was the SM of this troop years ago. Several former scouts in our charter org. Several former scouts in our area that are retired. Have a young man that lived just down from me who went all the way through the scouting program to Eagle. He is great and has talked about getting back in scouting. We have a small city. Basicaly a bedroom community but we do have lots of support. I think it would be good PR not only for the troop but for the community.

[commish3]

Lynda,
That's great for the Eagle bor but for Tenderfoot through First Class the BSA requires that the board be made of the troop's committee members.

[Lynda J]

Commish. It would still work. The Mayor has kept his registration current, the Police chief is registered with the troop. Also one of the Police Officers is registered because she has counseled Crime Prevention and Fingerprinting for the troop for several years.
Like I said. We were talking last night. Just brain storming.

[commish3]

I apologize if I seem thick headed, but your post does not say how they are registered. Do you mean they are registered as troop committee members of that troop?

[Lynda J]

I will have to look and see how they are registered. The former SM has always registered. A couple of years ago the Chief and the police officer the troop registered because they are always do so much to help the troop.

[commish3]

If they are registered as troop committee members then they are eligible to sit on a board of review for Tenderfoot through Eagle.

If they are registered as Assistant Scoutmasters or Scoutmaster they are not eligible to sit on boards in that unit where they are registered, but can be invited to sit on Eagle boards for other units.

If they are registered on the district or council level they are not eligible for Tenderfoot through First Class boards, but can be invited to sit for Eagle boards.

[RWSmith]

You cite one example. You've probably seen more non-Eagles as good SMs because there are more people that don't make it than do. .... I think it all depends on the individual.

Yes, it was just one example; it was merely an observation. And the reasoning you gave (underlined above) could not been better put. I never thought about that way.

BTW, I am an Eagle, too. Come to think of it, I was also a Scoutmaster... 20 years ago.

[RWSmith]

So you teach him it's okay to start dozens of things and never finish them? Not a good life lesson.

I never said that, nor implied it. Even so, the answer to her question remains the same.

[commish3]

"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."
Samuel Beckett


"It is better to have tried and failed then to have never tried at all"
Maynard G. Krebbs

[ICanCanoeCanU]

This is the same boy that someday will be awarded tons of badge and everyone will be stunned at how he did it. You never know when his thoughts will change and he'll kick butt.

As the advancement person for our troop, I would never pay attention to how many blue cards someone has started. I would however, ask him how he's doing on some that he previously started and see if he needs a hand or maybe he's just lost the cards and forgotten all about them.

[Lynda J]

I agree. It doesn't matter how many he is working on, but it isn't the troops responsibility to see to it he gets them done.

FYI
One other thing about BOR. I spend all day at the Scout Office Sat. in a District Planning meeting. Was taking to our District Commissiner and the Advancement Chair and the DE, told them what happened. I commented about having to use only Committee Members on BOR, All three said you can use members of the community for all BOR. And they don't have to be registered with the troop, just as long as the SM and CC approve of them in advance. I ask the DE about how it is worded in the SM Book. He said that is a guide line. But we can use community leaders.

[Scouting179]

This is the same boy that someday will be awarded tons of badge and everyone will be stunned at how he did it. You never know when his thoughts will change and he'll kick butt.

As the advancement person for our troop, I would never pay attention to how many blue cards someone has started. I would however, ask him how he's doing on some that he previously started and see if he needs a hand or maybe he's just lost the cards and forgotten all about them.

I don't agree at all. I rarely see a "partial mb king" turn around and finish many at all. What I've seen is if someone starts out as a "partial mb king", they tend to stay that way. Likewise, if someone starts out as someone who is good at finishing his MBs, he tends to stay that way too.

I do agree that it's not our job to finish their MBs, but we should try to encourage them to finish partials because if you don't, they learn it's okay in life to start things and not finish them.

[commish3]

Lynda,

It's best to rely on the resources of the BSA for program information. Professionals are wonderful folks but their job is not to know the program but to know how to gather people and money to keep the program going. Your DE is obviously unaware of the contents of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual as well as the the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Troop Committee Guide book. Community leaders are eligible for Eagle Scout board of reviews only.

[commish3]

Souting179

Just because you tried a piece of the cake doesn't mean you have to finish the whole cake. It's OK for young peoiple to try new things to see what interests them and what they want to pursue.

Boy Scout Advancement is designed for the individual boy to carve his own path. Sometimes that means looking down side trails to see where they lead. Advancment is not the goal of scouting. It is a tool. It is just one of many.

A boy who doesn't advance past First Class has not failed, nor is he a bad scout. Let's not make advancement our purpose by over emphasizing its importance.

[Scouting179]

I never said any of that. Stop adding to what I said.

[commish3]

I do not believe I added to what you said, I simply responded to what you said

but we should try to encourage them to finish partials because if you don't, they learn it's okay in life to start things and not finish them.

I don't think that is what we teach them at all. I believe what we teach is that it's a big world, here are a lot of little pieces of it for you to try. If you want to learn more I can help, but the choice is yours. Try as much as you like, learn as much as you want.

[Scouting179]

Different philosphies.