Wood Badge Tweaks

[Eamonn]

Looks as if 2006 is the year that the new 21 Century Wood Badge course gets a tweak. I have heard that the license agreement with Ken Blanchard rus out in 2006.
Some things are being moved: Diversity moves to the first part of the course, in order to help with the Ticket writing. I was hoping that the Win All You Can game would really get the axe, but no such luck!!
The course is a good one. I am for the tweaks - I only hope that no one gets carried away and takes away the good stuff!! Or worse still adds stuff that isn't needed.

[cballman]

well now having been in a woodbadge course SR-649 this past fall. i have to admit the win all you can game was weak. tha BEARS lost about as much as you could and we are still the best patrol that was there IMHO. we had as much fun as anybody could found out our weakness and strong points. just remember if you go to any woodbadge course then just remember to relax and have fun.

[Scouting179]

I went to SR571, the second time our council taught the new WB course. I loved it. While I wasn't fond of the Win All You Can game, I did see the point they were trying to make. I think it could be done another way. I liked the Jeopardy game too, but they need to tweak some of their answers and in our course's case, the people running that game did a poor job.

WB is the best leadership course I ever went to. It's also a great bonding expercience.

[RWSmith]

Unfortunately, I don't think we can combine duplicate threads in phpBB, only slipt them. So, here are the comments from the duplicate thread, which I have since deleted...

I took one of the old versions, and would like to see what the new one is all about.

The new one is more "modern" for lack of a better word. It focuses more on leadership than outdoor skills.

[riverwalk]

Thanks for that explanation. It was both HELPFUL and COURTEOUS. And I've seen both of those somewhere, haha.

[wagionvigil]

The problem with the New Course is it has taken out the Scouting SKills. It is being suggested by some region and area leaders that once you take WB take Powder Horn to do the outdoor skills.
I am editing this to make it more acceptable to some.

[riverwalk]

That's probably good advice. I have had the Scout WB COURSE, and Powder Horn. My wife had the Cub WB, so we've got our bases covered, haha. I also do this, if there is room in a session (won't keep a new Scouter out)....I'll retake a fundamentals or outdoor skills class again. I do the same in my professional work (Fire Service). It's more than a rededication to the mission, it's a great refresher.

[commish3]

I am gonna have to disagree with you wagionvigil.

National is suggesting that once you take WB take Powder Horn to do the outdoor skills.

I have never seen anything from national BSA recommending this, and I am confident it is not in the WB syllabus, and it would be misleading to make such a suggestion during a Wood Badge for the 21st Century course. While I would agree that some well meaning individuals may have made such a suggestion at a local level it is extremely doubtful that it was a suggestion from National.

If you look at the BSA training continuums for the various program branches you will find WB as the advanced leadership training course for every positon in scouting. Powder Horn however is listed a supplemental training for Venturing Advisors and Associate Advisors.

Powder Horn would not be a program appropriate course for many of the participants at a Wood Badge course. There are numerous other supplemental courses available for others to attend to learn and improve outdoor skills that would be program appropriate for their position, if in fact they are in a program position.

For that matter, Powder Horn really isn't designed to teach the actual skill so much as it is designed to be an introduction to the activity, and to teach Venturing leaders how to find and use resources to use the activity with the Crew.

[wagionvigil]

It is not in any information that is passed out. It has been brought up Area meetings to take back to the different councils and clusters.

[commish3]

How many area meetings are you aware of where this was said?

It would seem that taking one person's statement (possibly as a response to one persons question) and extending that into 'National suggests' might be a bit of an overstatement.

Do you agree that for many participants at Wood Badge this would not be an appropriate suggestion?

[wagionvigil]

For Some no, But for Most it would be a plus. They are suggesting to scout masters etc. to supplement the New Wood Badge Take Powder Horn.

[West]

I've taken it, and I can tell you it's of use to more then just Venture Advisors (my position when I took it). For whatever reason a lot of the focus on outdoor skills is being taken out of the program. That dosn't mean that every troop has to go along with it.

[Eamonn]

I think of myself as being a traditional Scouter. I love camping and playing with ropes. A day spent pioneering is about as close to heaven as I am going to get!!
I have not taken Powder Horn Training. In fact I am very confused by Powder Horn Training.
We had our District meeting last night (Thursday) and our District Training Chair. Announced that he along with another guy from our District will be on the staff of a Powder Horn course next year in Cleveland. He went on to explain that they would be going here and there around Cleveland to climb and canoe and do all sorts of other neat and nifty activities.
I have no doubt what so ever that those who attend will have a very enjoyable time. Some will already be expert or proficient in some of the activities, some activities will be new.
Here is where I get confused, the Training Chair, wants to promote this course. How will it help any Crew Adviser from Southwestern Pennsylvania deliver a better program?
If the adviser was already good at something - He has no need to do it again. If he is being introduced to it for the first time. - He isn't going to get good enough at it in two weekends to be able to pass on his little knowledge to the Crew.
I have heard and understand that Powder Horn Training is supposed to show the resources that are available. This particular course might be great for the guys who live in Cleveland, but I fail to see the value for the guys in our area.
Then I don't see why the Advisers have to do the activity? If I were a Crew Adviser and the Crew wanted to go pony trekking, I look for someone that offered pony trekking either in the yellow pages or on the net. I don't see how me sitting on a pony at Powder Horn helps the Crew?
I think that the new Introduction To Outdoor Skills for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters is a wonderful course. Presented correctly those who attend should come away with the skills needed to help see almost any Scout through First Class.
BALOO Training, should equip our packs with the know how to organize and run a family camp for our Cub Scouts. The Webelos Scout Den Leader Outdoor Training, equips our Webelos Scout Den Leaders to take Webelos Scouts away.
Wood Badge is now a course about leadership.
The old Cub Scout Leader Trainer Wood Badge, didn't equip the participants to lead an outdoor program. The old Boy Scout course did a wonderful job with the 11 Leadership Skills, but was of little use to the guy who came from the community to serve as a District Membership Chair or District Chairman. The course is about leadership. Sure it uses a Troop setting but it is not a Boy Scout course, in fact there are more Cub Scouter's taking the course than Boy Scouter's - And yes I have heard that Cub Scouter's grow up and become Boy Scouter's.
I don't know how long it is going to take for us to forget the old courses and accept that the new course is different.

[cballman]

ok IMHO I have taken the Woodbadge of the 21st century. SR-649 last fall.
I would have to say that there were no outdoor skills taught as I am thinking outdoor skills. Now on the other hand when we went through Outdoor Leader Training then that is where I was taught Outdoor skills . Or basicly I think it was the skills of everything up to first class and we went over ad done most of the req.except for the swimming ones. so IMHO if you want outdoor skill do the outdoor leader training. Podwerhorn from what we were told is a more advanced in other skills like scuba,canoeing , and other HIGH ADVENTURE things that Boy Scouts cant do till they get older.

[riverwalk]

Well, that's one reason for a powderhorn I guess, haha. This guy has had the old Boy Scouter WB, and Powderhorn. I wish I had done the Cub Scouter course too...before the development of the one WB course.

Here's one succinct explanation of Powderhorn:

It's not a personal development course to gain more skill in given areas. It does expose one to High Adventure skills. It helps you learn where to get resources to offer exciting ways to keep teens coming back to meetings and activities.

[Scouting179]

The problem with the New Course is it has taken out the Scouting SKills. It is being suggested by some region and area leaders that once you take WB take Powder Horn to do the outdoor skills.
I am editing this to make it more acceptable to some.

This implies there was no problem with the old course. If that was true, why did they bother to update it? The new WB is a leadership course. There are other courses for outdoor skills (SM skills, Powderhorn, etc).

I also applaud the effort of the new course and system to be more inclusive and less of the "good old boy network" the old WB system was.

I've heard many people say that the problem with the old course was that it'd lost sight of its original goal, to develop leadership in adults. I took the new course and it did a great job at that. I learned my outdoor skills as a youth in Scouts and in other courses.

[optimist]

They updated the old course to make it more inclusive. Wood Badge was basically just for Boy Scout leaders. There was also a Cub Scout Wood Badge but it was only for trainers, not for the Cub Scout leaders themselves. Explorer Wood Badge was so rare that sightings were worth top dollar if their existence could be proven

The new Wood Badge is for all adult leaders regardless of which program they are in. The marked references to the Boy Scout program, including outdoor skills instruction, were removed. While not primarilly designed to do so, Powder Horn can be used as a replacement for the outdoor training that was removed from the Wood Badge course.

So what is Powder Horn for? Well, for the official answer, go to the Powder Horn Training web site. My take on it is that the BSA simply wanted a way to provide Venturing leaders with some basic high adventure program skills. It may not be as good as the offerings from the National Outdoor Leadership School but it's a start.

[commish3]

Tweaking is good. Tweaking has been a part of Scout training for decades. Even the previous version of Wood Badge was altered a litle here and there over the years.

I would not say thet WB was updated. It was revised. WB for the 21st Century has little content that is comparable to the previous incarnation. It does have a few cosmetic similarities and some traditions remain. But for the most part it is a completely different course.

Some of the tweaks are coming from the new National Youth Leader Development course. I would expect that over the next several years these two courses will continue to share program enhancements back and forth.

Powder Horn and NOLS also have little content in common. The former is a course on high adventure resources, the latter is an in depth hands on skill learning experience.