Adult Leader Problem

[T305TG]

An adult leader in our troop, who shale remain nameless,.... He will cancel trips behind the SPL's back and send him emails in the middle of the day while we are at school and then say well you didnt respond to the email so i thought it was alright... while he knows we are in school because it is required in BSA Policy that a scout is to be under 18... which ussuly means that the scout hasnt graduated... This is a serious problem... he argues with us all the time which is just not acceptable as an adult leader in BSA... "set good exampls"

Can someone please give me some info on how to take care of this problem?

thank you

[riverwalk]

Hmmm, well, I can't speak to the communication practices of another Troop. There may be a perception that your Leader is having an argument, but may not actually be doing so. If he is having disagreements however, there may be a problem. Where are the other Scouters (Leaders)? Also, sometimes Adult leadership has to cancel an outing. There are many reasons that the PLC may or may not be aware of.

[commish3]

I would offer to you T305TG that the working relationship between the adult and the SPL is in fact between the adult and the SPL and others (regardless of how good their intentions might be) need to respect that and not get involved in other peoples business.

If the SPL or the adult choose to bring another person in to help resolve the problem that is their choice. But others should develop a habit of not forcing themselves into other peoples business.

[West]

Yeah, but if it ever happens it should be very rare. Adults constantly canceling trips is not a good thing at all. They need to work extreemly hard to find another way (get another adult to go, perhaps even change the location of the trip if that's what's needed.) When I first joined scouts this was a problem for about 3 months. It almost killed the troop before it even started.

[teepeeayy]

T305TG, I have little doubt there are many people reading these forums (fori?) that would be happy to offer advice. Unfortunately, your post leaves us asking more questions than are answered. I'm hesitant to offer anything not knowing more detail of the circumstances. (I can't believe I'm actually keeping my mouth shut)

Is there any adult within the troop you can talk to ?

[evmori]

Why are the trips cancelled? I would be amiss to give advise since I don't have all the facts.

[West]

Why are the trips cancelled? I would be amiss to give advise since I don't have all the facts.

If in fact trips are frequently cancelled it really dosn't matter why. They need to find a way to solve it. Scouts arn't in the program to go to meetings.

[evmori]

Why are the trips canceled? I would be amiss to give advise since I don't have all the facts.

If in fact trips are frequently canceled it really doesn't matter why. They need to find a way to solve it. Scouts ain't in the program to go to meetings.

Good point! But there is a reason none the less & since the information we have is limited, I think we need to know.

Making recommendations on such limited information is not a good idea.

[Guneukitschik]

I would work with your Troop Committee and ask that the leader not be a part of the trip planning process.

As Scouts you are in control of where/when you go for outings. You should confirm at least 2 adult leaders (other than the leader in question) and plan a trip and then carryout your plan...This way if you are in charge of the trip the leader can just call and cancel for no reason?

What happens when all the Scouts show up to leave for an outing and then the leader doesn't show up?

I'm sure the parents are extremely angry and tired of dealing with this as well?

[Scouting179]

Based on the limited info provided, I'd talk to the SPL and leader in question if you haven't already, a trusted other ASM, and then the troop committee chairman if need be.

[t305spl]

I think I will clarify a few things as the SPL for the discussed troop. Only 2 trips have been cancelled due to the fact that the drive to the places was over 4 hours and it was expected to rain heavily our entire stay. But what is very true is that the SM should speak with me before fully cancelling a trip, he could just send a warning to all going that a possible cancellation could take place.

[riverwalk]

It would always be more considerate if Leaders had the time to tell why a trip will be cancelled. It must also be remembered however, that Leaders have to decide if the trip can continue, or even be started. If it's an official outing, it has to be conducted per Policies and Insurance concerns. Otherwise, Leaders are without protection if anything happens. And unfortunate and tragic things happen to Scouts every year.

[West]

Rain's no reason to cancell a trip. It builds character.

[hops_scout]

"If it aint rainin', we aint trainin'"

[evmori]

So the only problem ??? is the SPL not being informed! So in reality, this is a communication issue! Fixable!

[ASM-142]

I think I will clarify a few things as the SPL for the discussed troop. Only 2 trips have been cancelled due to the fact that the drive to the places was over 4 hours and it was expected to rain heavily our entire stay. But what is very true is that the SM should speak with me before fully cancelling a trip, he could just send a warning to all going that a possible cancellation could take place.

I know as an adult it is not fun driving for 4 hours in a heavy rain. This would also be less fun if the passengers (wet boys) are in a bad mood.

[West]

Very true, I've done it myself many times. It's not something I'd rank amongst my favorite activities. However, unless it gets to the point of being a safty concern then it just dosn't cut it for a reason to cancell a trip. What the heck kind of message is 'we don't camp in the rain?'

[t305spl]

I know thats what I say all the time. Thats the reason I dont want my SM to cancell until we can both talk so we get to discuss first.

[edlepera]

In our Troop, We usually agree on cancelation when two or more of the adult leaders agree that the safey of the Scouts could be in danger. Example, we had a canoe trip plan and had heavy, the river in question was about 1 hour away. After a consulting with the ranger, we notify the Comittee Chairman that the river would be too swift and we were going to cancel the trip. In my experience that is the only way to go about caneling a trip. We always plan for at least 5 adult leaders to go on the trips.

If there is a conflict with this adult leader that is causing discord within the Troop, than maybe the troop comittee chairman and the district chair talk with this gentleman.

[edlepera]

In addition we also have a keep in contact with out SPL and PL on any safety situations that could cause a trip to be cancel. So far in the last two years. We only have had to cancel one trip. flash flooding is not fun.