a question

[hacimsaalk]

i recently have posted things that some people dissagree with. things like gambling, snipe hunts and teh such. people seem to immediately say that i am a bad leader, i dont care about anyone, and i am not looking out for anyone. why is this?

[riverwalk]

Hmmm, well most discussion forums rules ask that people not "flame" each other in their reply. Most forum users are pretty good about such, but it's also easy in an email forum to misunderstand each other. Without falling into your examples, as they've been covered elsewhere....different people have different frames of reference. In other words, their past experience, position of responsibility, training or all of these guide their decisions.

So, what happens often is that a reply is either too harsh...OR, it's just taken too personal. I participate in several forums for Scouting, Fire Service, and Community. I've been misunderstood, and I've been flamed. One user recently flamed me, but meant to belittle someone else and used my screen name by mistake. After clearing this up, he was left with egg on his screen, I mean face.

[wagionvigil]

Micah I refer you to the Policies section of this forum. The Scout Oath and Laws govern what is used here. And part of those items is obeying the BSA policies. This is the last time I will address this issue with you. What you may do on other forums will not be tolerated here.

[cballman]

Micah the problem is that when you or anyone else ask a question or makes a remark then everyone has their own opinion on that subject. what we must realize is that our answer is not the only one that is right and everybody else is wrong. As and adult leader I have to make decisions that the kids think is harmless but can hurt someone. I would love to have a world that everyone could have a simple answer and get along but that will never happen. When someone says its ok to break the LAW and it is harmless then what are we teaching the boys? Now If this dont help out with your question then you need to reread the the post that people have made and look at them as you either were in charge or you were on the other side looking at the conversation. Then try to understand ALL sides of the equation and then look at yourself and say have I done my best to run my Troop and live MY life as stated in the Twelve Points of the Scout Law? Then look at yourself and ask the question have I hurt anyone or their feelings or have I hurt them physicaly? Then What can I do to better myself and my troop? I think what I have said not only works for young men, young ladies and adults also so when anyone reads this post I want you to stop, think and look at yourself and ask the age old question " have I done my best today"

[commish3]

Micah,
I think alot of times we forget you are a scout and not an adult leader who should know the BSA policies. I think you forget that too sometimes. You need to realize that the training and resources we have as adult leaders is far different from what you have recieved in your position in scouting as a youth.

Perhaps if you approached these situations with an attitude of a student rather than as a teacher you would find less resistance.

I think you are correct, we need to remember when you are violating BSA policies that you are being allowed to or taught to by an adult leader in your unit who should know better, and who is responsible for seeing that you operate within the policies of the BSA.

Your errors are more his than yours.

[wagionvigil]

Commish I do agree with you somewhat. BUT these policies were explained to Micah in e mails etc. a while ago. Members of the forum tried to explain to him what and why and where to read this for himself. The Gambling issue and the HAzing issue are Non issues as they are strictly prohibited under BSA policy.

[commish3]

I agree wagionvigil, I would hope that micah would at least investigate the expertise and advice of the forum rather than just reject it, but he is a youth and he doesn't know any of us as well as he knows his own adult leadership. I don't think we can expect him to put as much confidence into what we tell him, as he will in what the adults he knows and trusts tell him.

That is just part of being a youth.

Bottom line is that supporting BSA policies is primarily a responsibility of the adult leadership of his troop. If they do not know or support BSA policies then we can expect little more of the youth they teach and lead.

Micah's errors are largely the result of the knowledge and training (or lack of) of his adult leaders.

(Micah if you have a parent who is your leader I apologize for any embarrasment this post may cause you. But you may want to urge them to get ahold of the Guide to Sfe Scouting and to attend adult leader training.)

[wagionvigil]

The Goal here is to help us All be better scouts and scouters. WE would like to see Micah develop into a fantastic junior Leader and a role model for his troop and eventually and adult leader. But in all education we as TEACHERS hope that the Student absorbs what we are trying to get across in the Lesson. If the student does take in what is presented they will develop and advance in whatever they do. If they fail to take in what the teacher is putting across or decide upon their own not to take in that lesson then they will not reach their potential

[cballman]

Micah

after reading the last couple of post from Wagionvigil and commish3 Yes you are considered a youth but when you ask questions and then tend to not care about BSAs G2SS or the law of the land then yes there is a problem. You are asking questions but already have your mind made up and dont seem to care what we as leaders think. then you get upset. like I said in an earlier post stop, sit back and put yourself in our boots or your leaders boots. then you could see what we are saying. and also remember that as leaders we do not all agree on the sames issues but we as adults need to discuss these things in a rational manner.

[hacimsaalk]

so what you are all saying is,(and correct me if im wrong) that i am acting like a leader, not a youth, and because i dont agree with some of the things in the BSA Safe Scouting, that gives peole the right to say pretty much whtever they want to me.

[hacimsaalk]

Micah

after reading the last couple of post from Wagionvigil and commish3 Yes you are considered a youth but when you ask questions and then tend to not care about BSAs G2SS or the law of the land then yes there is a problem. You are asking questions but already have your mind made up and dont seem to care what we as leaders think. then you get upset. like I said in an earlier post stop, sit back and put yourself in our boots or your leaders boots. then you could see what we are saying. and also remember that as leaders we do not all agree on the sames issues but we as adults need to discuss these things in a rational manner.

i present my opinion just like you leaders do, and i try to listen to what everyone has to say. a leader posts something, then i post something in reply.

i also try to disscuss things as rationally as possible, but when i am being slammed because one of the leaders doesnt like my post, what am i to do???

[hacimsaalk]

Micah I refer you to the Policies section of this forum. The Scout Oath and Laws govern what is used here. And part of those items is obeying the BSA policies. This is the last time I will address this issue with you. What you may do on other forums will not be tolerated here.

what have i done that isnt tolerable here?
(quotes from policies (http://www.meritbadge.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=95) in red)
When posting, remember that your conduct is governed by the Scout Law. If you discover a posting that includes content that is inappropriate in a Scouting venue, please contact us immediately. If we deem the content to be inappropriate we will remove it. havent had this happen

Content that includes profanity, racist, sexual, pornographic, advertising, violent, or hate content is not appropriate on this board. never said anything like that either

Posts which we feel do not support these policies will be subject to removal. We reserve the right to remove anything from these pages for any reason without notice. nope, never done that either

Posters who violate these policies will be subject to disciplanary action up to and including complete bans from the use of these boards. We reserve the right to remove anybody from these boards for any reason without notice. havent been banned yet, so i fugre that i havent broken the policies yet.,

if you (anyone) see anyone of these policies that i have broken, let me know.[/url]

[hacimsaalk]

if i have offended anyone greatly, or if anyone feels i have done them a great injustice,plese email me, and let us straighten it out, in a CALM, RATIONAL, mannner, so that maybe i can get things straightend out.

[wagionvigil]

Excuse Me! But we have edited your post and removed a couple. I edited your signature to remove your town as YOU are not permitted to have it on here.

[hacimsaalk]

Excuse Me! But we have edited your post and removed a couple. I edited your signature to remove your town as YOU are not permitted to have it on here.

i have never had a post deleted. i have had ONE edited b/c i said c***.

and you didnt remove my town, i did.

p.s. an example would be nice

[hacimsaalk]

i would like to point you all to the topic entilted "Leaving these forums", which is in the general info section. i feel much the same way BM_Crawford in this topic. this just goes to prove im not the only one who has had problems.

[cballman]

Micah
I will give you an example You are under the age of eighteen right? then why do you think it ok to gamble when it is against the law? If you then think it is ok to gamble the you are breaking the law period. and you say that we are having problems listening to you when you are breaking the law then YES I have a problem with that.

[optimist]

Micah,

The purpose of this web site is to support the Boy Scout Advancement Program of the Boy Scouts of America. As such, we require that posts made to these boards be supportive of this web site's stated goal.

You didn't quote the above policy when you made your statement. It is the most important one, that is why it is listed first on the policies page. This is a support board. Messages in these forums are supposed to support BSA policy and Scouting activities. Even though you have posted numerous positive posts, several of your messages have violated this policy.

Micah I refer you to the Policies section of this forum. The Scout Oath and Laws govern what is used here. And part of those items is obeying the BSA policies. This is the last time I will address this issue with you. What you may do on other forums will not be tolerated here.

what have i done that isnt tolerable here?
(quotes from policies (http://www.meritbadge.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=95) in red)
When posting, remember that your conduct is governed by the Scout Law. If you discover a posting that includes content that is inappropriate in a Scouting venue, please contact us immediately. If we deem the content to be inappropriate we will remove it. havent had this happen

A Scout Is Obedient -- You have been told several times that you are acting in an unacceptable manner but you continue to do so anyway.

A Scout Is Courteous -- You have been discourteous on several occasions by arguing after BSA policy was explained to you. In addition, you have been discourteous by arguing after the law was explained to you. There is a difference between disagreeing and arguing. If you don't understand the difference, you would be better off not disagreeing.

Content that includes profanity, racist, sexual, pornographic, advertising, violent, or hate content is not appropriate on this board. never said anything like that either

Under the law, hazing is considered violent activity.

Posts which we feel do not support these policies will be subject to removal. We reserve the right to remove anything from these pages for any reason without notice. nope, never done that either

In addition to wagionvigil editing and deleting posts of yours, I also have edited and deleted your posts. The fact that you are unaware of this happening doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. All the moderators of these forums work hard not to make issue were it can be avoided.

Posters who violate these policies will be subject to disciplanary action up to and including complete bans from the use of these boards. We reserve the right to remove anybody from these boards for any reason without notice. havent been banned yet, so i fugre that i havent broken the policies yet.,

if you (anyone) see anyone of these policies that i have broken, let me know.[/url]

Nobody's perfect and nobody is expecting everyone in these forums to be perfect. Bad behavior is only pointed out when it gets out of hand and then usually not until it has been discussed by all the moderators. You have gotten out of hand on several occasions.

Whether or not you stay here is up to you. You can either take this as a learning experience and join in the conversation responsibly, or you can leave, or you can be banned.

I declare this topic closed. Any further pursuit of this subject will result in disciplanary action.