Canoe - Swim Test

[ThunderingWind]

Can the SM really cut the swim test segment from the Canoe MB when doing the MB as troop function?

If so, please provide page and paragraph reference to the SM Handbook or other Scouting manual that authorizes this power.

[wagionvigil]

No, but if a scout has passed this test within the year it is still good.

[PaulSWolf]

Can the SM really cut the swim test segment from the Canoe MB when doing the MB as troop function?

If so, please provide page and paragraph reference to the SM Handbook or other Scouting manual that authorizes this power.

First of all, unless the SM is a registered Canoeing MB Counselor, he can't "do the MB as a troop function" From "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures" (33088)

Qualifications of Counselors.
Persons serving as merit badge counselors must be registered as a merit badge counselor with the Boy Scouts of America. ... All merit badge counselors must be approved by the council advancement committee.

Second, the swim test itself is a critical safety feature required before doing ANY aquatics activity. From the "Guide to Safe Scouting" (33416):

Safe Swim Defense

Before a BSA group may engage in swimming activities of any kind, a minimum of one adult leader must complete Safe Swim Defense training, have a commitment card (No. 34243) with them, and agree to use the eight defenses in this plan.

# Ability Groups
Divide into three ability groups: Nonswimmers, beginners, and swimmers. Keep each group in its own area. ... These classification tests should be renewed annually, preferably at the beginning of the season.

Safety Afloat

Safety Afloat has been developed to promote boating and boating safety and to set standards for safe unit activity afloat. Before a BSA group may engage in an excursion, expedition, or trip on the water (canoe, raft, sailboat, motorboat, rowboat, tube, or other craft), adult leaders for such activity must complete "Safety Afloat Training," No. 34159C, have a "Commitment Card:, No. 34242A, with them, and be dedicated to full compliance with all nine points of Safety Afloat.

# Swimming Ability
A person who has not been classified as a "swimmer" may ride as a passenger in a rowboat or motorboat with an adult "swimmer" or in a canoe, raft, or sailboat with an adult certified as a lifeguard or a lifesaver by a recognized agency. In all other circumstances, the person must be a swimmer to participate in an activity afloat. ... This qualification test should be renewed annually.

Fianlly, and most importantly, also from "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures" (33088)

No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from advancement requirements.

Requirement 3 of the Canoeing MB reads:

Before doing the following requirements, successfully complete the BSA swimmer test: Jump feetfirst into water over the head in depth. Level off and swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy, resting backstroke. The 100 yards must be completed in one swim without stops and must include at least one sharp turn. After completing the swim, rest by floating.

So NO he may not cut the swim test. However, if each Scout working on the Merit Badge, has a current classification as swimmer, as the result of a BSA Swim test completed within the past year, that may be considered to meet the requiremtns of requiement 3. The Scout does NOT have to repeat the test just to work on the badge.

[ThunderingWind]

Thank you for the documetns and quotes. That makes me feel better.

The MB was announced as a group MB (for those who want to do it) and my son thoguth it would be cool to try. So we downloaded the latest MB pamphlet frmo the WWW and started reading. We found he needs to read and test a littel more with the new level of First Aid (we jsut crossed over).

We got to the swim requirement and know that we are not swimmers. I mentioend it at the Tropp meeting last night and was soundly told that the because of the "super water safety rules we use here, I, the SM, can waive/modify that requirement." All participants are required to wear a life vest at all times no matter what. When ever this Troop goes near water, the vest has to be on, period. Event the adults.

A bit overkill, but the changing of the MB requirements (other than for a special-needs youth), did not sound right.

[wagionvigil]

There is no option to the swimmer requirement for Canoeing MB.

[PaulSWolf]

Its really not overkill. The PFD (vest) requirement is a standard for all BSA activities on the water, Again, from the Guide to Safe Scouting:

Personal Flotation Devices (PFDs)

Properly fitted U.S. Coast Guard-approved personal flotation devices (PFDs) must be worn by all persons engaged in activity on the open water (rowing, canoeing, sailing, boardsailing, motorboating, waterskiing, rafting, tubing, and kayaking).

Only U.S. Coast Guard-approved equipment (types I, II, or III) is acceptable for use in Scouting aquatics. Ski belts are not acceptable. Scouts and unit leaders should learn which type is appropriate for each specific circumstance and how to wear and check for proper fit.

[wagionvigil]

Ther is a link in this forum to the Online Safe Defense training I would find it and take it!

[Lynda J]

I don't know where your SM is getting his information on MB Counseling but a counselor can not modity the requirements. They can not add or delete a requirement. So he can not modity or waive the swimming requirement. Safety Afloat Rule

#3. A person who has not beenclassified as a "swimmer, may ride as a passanger in a rowboat, or motorboat with an adult "swimmer" or in a canoe, raft or sailboat with an adult certified as a lifguard or a lifesaver or recognized agency. In all other circumstances, the person must be a swimmer to participate in an activity afloat.

This is directly from the Guide to Safe Scouting guidelines.

There is no option on this rule. And any leader that feels they can modity this is looking to get themselves in trouble. BSA has these rules for very good reasons. Not only for the protection of the boys but also for the protection of the leaders, troop, and Council.

[optimist]

Link = Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat Online Training Program

[riverwalk]

Lots of good responses. In the interest of a Safety reminder...there has been another boating incident here (actually down in the Gulf of Mexico). This was a family outing and not another Scouting incident thank goodness. The point to make is that witnesses say the one casualty still missing, was seen slipping out his life preserver after the capsizing. I lack other details, but make sure any lp's or PFD's are right for the activity, and fitted to the individual. Not to mention all the other safety considerations.

[wagionvigil]

I work sometimes as a whitewater Guide on the Yough. When we put on our vest we have another person actually put their foot against our chest and we pull the tabs on the vest as tight as possible. I have seen vest taken right off in rapids.

[cballman]

ed I think I might see where you might think a SM could cut out the swimming test? sounds funny but the BSA swim test is good for 1 year or basicaly it must be renewed at the start of the new season. as per the safe swim defense. now if all the boys went to summer camp passed the swim test I would not make them retake the test if the merit badge was done that fall. but if the merit badge was don in the spring then Yes they would retake the test. but how many people are in your troop that is able to give the test? as in BSA lifeguards? not saying that our troop is perfect but safe and I will help out any kid as long as HE ask.

[Scouting179]

Ed: please refer to the quote I made for you from the Advancment Guide that basically says:

"NO ONE MAY ADD TO OR SUBTRACT FROM ANY REQUIREMENT" (paraphrased)

[Scouting179]

PS the full exact quote is in the parentign thread you started.

I think your SM is being cavalier and you are right to be wary of it.

[diamondbackAPL]

to me cutting the swim test isn't very smart. what if you earn the badge without taking the swim test, and then one day you're canoeing, and the boat capsizes 100 yards or farther from shore? I don't know about you, but I would want to be able to swim to shore.

[wagionvigil]

It violates the followin
G2SS
Safe Swim Defense
Safety Afloat
ANy other questions?

[Mick Scouter]

Except for First Aid there is not a more important MB.