Another Attendance Question -- Completely Absent Scouts

[Billiken]

I did a search re attendance topics and learned quite a bit.

However, we have a situation in my new Troop on which I'd like some educated/exprienced opinions.

We have 3 high school-age boys who are Star or Life AND are on the varsity swim team. During swimming season the three do not attend ANY Troop meetings or weekend events (2x a day swim practice and meets on the weekends). We're talking 100% absent for 3+ months.

All three could make it to Eagle Scout (one will for sure).

How or should we count these periods towards the leadership requirements for rank advancement?

I'm of the opinion to say they're "off the clock" during swim season.

Thanks for any insights and help

YIS
Billiken

[RWSmith]

Well now, haven't we tipped over the honey jar... Umm Hmm. I'll pass, for now, and ring in later. I'm gonna love this one.

[BM_Crawford]

If they arn't there they can't leave and if they're not active they're not active. It's the scout's responsibility to make sure he can attend at least SOME scouting events. The requirements are clear cut and dry, if they wan't to move on they have to go to some events.

[commish3]

Just so that we can be completely clear on this Billiken, which specific requirement are you referring to?

I ask because many people confuse which requirement relates to this, and what the requirement actually is.

[Billiken]

Just so that we can be completely clear on this Billiken, which specific requirement are you referring to?

I ask because many people confuse which requirement relates to this, and what the requirement actually is.

The leadership roles (SPL, PL, etc....).

If they're not present, how can they lead?

[ASM-142]

Do they fulfill the leadership requirments th rest of the year? If so then they probable have enough leadership time for advancement even thought they are absent during swim season

[PaulSWolf]

Do they fulfill the leadership requirments th rest of the year? If so then they probable have enough leadership time for advancement even thought they are absent during swim season

And remember, both the tenure in a position of responsibility (NOT "Leadership") and tenure in the Troop and Patrol are for ANY 4 or 6 months since their previous advancement, not the last 4 or 6 months before they are ready to advance. Also, if the unit ans Scout knows that he is going to be absent for anextended period, he should not be assigned to the position of ressponsibility for that period.

[Lynda J]

I always have a problem penalizing a scout because of school activities.
If they are part of the swim team they don't have a option of being at meets and at practice. If they aren't there they many times get grade points taken off from school. And I have seen boys drop out of scouts because a troop had such harsh attendance rules. I agree that when you know when they are not going to be able to take part then you don't put them in a position of responsibility during that time. But to count them as not being part of the troop during that period time is wrong. They are still registered with the troop.

[Woodbadgegirl]

I agree Lynda! I believe the troop has no right to put stipulations on attendance.

I called National on what they consider active and what is not, and they said a boy that is registered in scouting and keeps his registration up is considered active.

Now, can a boy be the SPL and effectively lead his troop if he is gone for 3 months? Probably not. But if he served 3 of the months as SPL for his Life and was able to do a SM project for the other 3 month, then that would work. Or the SM can just have him do a special project for the troop and that would be his entire area of responsibility. As long as he has the merit badges that are required to earn the Life or Eagle, it doesn't matter if he is there those three months. It's the SM's call.

[Billiken]

INow, can a boy be the SPL and effectively lead his troop if he is gone for 3 months? Probably not. But if he served 3 of the months as SPL for his Life and was able to do a SM project for the other 3 months, then that would work. Or the SM can just have him do a special project for the troop and that would be his entire area of responsibility. As long as he has the merit badges that are required to earn the Life or Eagle, it doesn't matter if he is there those three months. It's the SM's call.

We do not penalize the boys for being absent. However, during the swim season it's my feeling that they can't be in leadership roles.
The leadership requirements state "...serve actively....".

Thanks for the heads-up on the option of a leadership project. Frankly, I don't believe any of the CURRENT scouts are waiting out times for advancement (i.e. all other requirements are done for the next rank except the time-sensitive ones).

My father, a long-time scouter says that the biggest distraction for boys occurs when they turn 16 and their sense of smell improves.......they notice the aromas of gasoline and perfume.

[commish3]

That's what I was wanting to see that you understood! The requirement is to "actively serve" for the given period of time. It is not to'hold an office'.

If the scout did not actively serve then he has not completed the requirement. What is actively? What did the Scout and the Scoutmaster agree upon during his "introduction to leadership conference" when he accepted the office?

[BM_Crawford]

I'm sorry I was confussed. I thought you meant someone who signed up for a leadership possition and wasn't there through any of it not just some.

[Mick Scouter]

WoW every now and then a thread hits a nerve. I agree with RWSmith

Well now, haven't we tipped over the honey jar... Umm Hmm. I'll pass, for now, and ring in later. I'm gonna love this one.

Like everything choices have to be made. I find that there are times when different activities take different priorities.

Good Question????????????

[wagionvigil]

DeJA Vue? REmember what BSA says active is.

[BM_Crawford]

What does BSA consider active?

[wagionvigil]

Registered

[BM_Crawford]

Ahh ic, thanks.

[diamondbackAPL]

the BSA considers registered scouts active, so scouts that never show up for anything would still be "active"?

maybe it's just me, but that seems strange

[Woodbadgegirl]

the BSA considers registered scouts active, so scouts that never show up for anything would still be "active"?

Yep, that's what National says is active. I called them myself and asked when we were going through attendance stuff with the old troop.

[commish3]

Sorry folks but that is not what the BSA advancement program says "actively serve" is. That's one of those long lived myths of scouting.

See page 172 of the boy scout handbook.

Nor does simply being registered complete the requirement for "be active in your troop or patrol for X months".

See page 169


The leadership requirement is to actively serve. To do take part in the operation of the troop. During the "introduction to leadership conference" the scout learns the responsibilities of his position and sets goals for his term.

If all that was required was to be registered then that is what the requirement would have stated.

How would a boy grow in the values or skills of the program merely by being registered? And after all that is what the advancement requirements are all about.