Troop Leaders That Are ANTI-OA

[Billiken]

I just discovered that my new Troop (son crossed over 4 days ago) has no Scouts as members of the OA (approximately 20 registered Scouts, 2 Eagles earned in 2004).

In speaking with the Committee Chairman I was told that the SM and one of the ASMs are very anti-OA. (The ASM in question is Vigil Honor.) I'm Brotherhood (earned as a youth, now active once again).

I need to delicately "pick my moment" for asking why.

Can anyone think of a reason why?
(Want to have possible come-backs to their objections.)

Thanks

Billiken

[wagionvigil]

Some people have problems in Certain Lodges. The Lodge They were in may have not really been boy led like it should be. They may have run for an office and Not been elected. I only have positive experiences in the Lodge. Of course the lodge I belong to is one of the oldest in the Country and has always been operated as it should be. I did my orderal in 1963 Brotherhood a in 64 and Vigil in 95

[Mrw]

We have been with our troop since my college student crossed from Webelos.

In all that time, we have had OA elections three times.

There was no contact from OA to the troop and the boys had heard of OA, but didn't know what it was. New Scoutmasters with no experience in that area didn't help.

Doesn't leave me very impressed with the local organization.

[wagionvigil]

Large Councile or SMall Council??

[Billiken]

Large Council or Small Council??

Greater Cleveland.....14,000+ Cubs/Scouts/Venturers.

Active lodge (Cuyahoga #17). Great staff advisor.
Crooked River Dancers -- National caliber dance team.

I had a great time in OA as a youth. Weekend conclaves were a blast.
Attended two sectional conclaves too.

If appropriate, I'll post the reasons after Tuesday's upcoming Troop mtg.

[wagionvigil]

Part of a Lodges Job is Camping Promotions. They SHOULD have teams going out to troops and packs to stress summer camp. Another job is holding Troop OA Elections. Each district should HAve Election teams in place to set up the elections with the Troops. WE actually did away with the TWo posiotions for a while had one Fould it did not work so we went back to two separate committees so to speak. Each Lodge is unique in how they do things but they all must do camping promotions

This weekend was our April service weekend.We had 170 registered to attend plus 26 New Ordeal taking their O5rdeals 15 Brotherhoods and a Vigil. It rained all nigt Friday and all day Saturday then 4" of snow SAturday Night. The Lodge completed many task that had to be done to ready camp for opening. Large Councils sometimes don't use the Lodge as they could. It is easier to hire a contractor etc. In our council the Lodge is the Contractor. We build and Repair most everything at camp.
A large amount of building Materials was donated and the compant=y that donated it gave us tractor Trailers to store it in that all had to be moved into those trailers. New Pavillions were started.Windows Repaied etc.
We all had a blast.
Our weekend cost 12.00 that includes 4 meals and 2 Snacks. We havd had Buffalo and Emu at our weekends.
Carry On Wagion!

[riverwalk]

Perhaps the Troop's Scouters have felt the local OA program was too political?? Perhaps you can change their impression.

[OldGreyBear]

It may not be a quesiton of anti-OA, but of Anti who was running the OA at a time. When my son was eligible to be elected the OA he was all excited, and then he was called out and was very impressed by the Ceremony of Calling Out. The Ordeal week end was an eyeopener. All the ordeal candidates were running around doing work, and it really seemed the rest of the membes did theit dead level best to get out of work and brag about how little cheerful service they gave. As time went on, the troops membership in the OA grew, and it seemed the older OA memebrs all vied to be on the Ceremonies team. WHich I thougt was great, until I realized they only wanted to be torch bearers. See, the Ceremonies team doesnt have to work on the weekends, they are to be learning their lines, and for some participnats I can see it, but not having torchbeareres work is plain silly. It got to the point that all the OA was to my son was a bunch of guys who wanted to camp and brag about how stupid others were for actually working.. That may explain someones resentment of the OA.

Now, I am sure my/our experience is not the average. OA chapters, like councils and districts and varied in character and I am sure there exists many fine examples of the true nature of the OA, I post this to remind arrowman how little it takes to blight your organizaiton for a very long time.

[srisom]

In our District, we had two troops with adults who were anti-OA. One of them was an adult run troop;actually a family run unit. They did what they wanted to do, even scheduling troop events on OA weekends.

The other had a SM that had had a bad experience with the council years ago. He scheduled troop outings away for district camporee, OA weekends, council events;as long as it was away from the council. The unit held OA elections, but call outs were done out of council at Summer Camp. Only time the Lodge saw them was when they took their Ordeal.

Couple years ago, had an adult join the troop that had been active in the OA with another unit. Two weeks ago, their elected youth were called out at a district camporee for the first time in 12 years. The unit will be attending one of our council camps. The SM is even working there this summer.

Quite a change in a couple of years. I know that the SA had many talks with the SM. This, along with other things, helped make the change.

If you have an interest in OA, then make it known to the adults and the youth. Be an example of the good it can be. Don't expect a quick change.

More than likely, either the adult or their son(s) had a bad experience with the OA and they are convinced that everyone will have a bad experience. Slowly change their mind.

[Mick Scouter]

Ok! I might regret saying anything here but that has not stopped me before. First, I hope I can be an objective participant in this thread even though I have very little experience with OA. People in general have a comfort zone. When moving beyond that comfort zone they can find it difficult.

I know very little about OA; however, I know a number of people that I trust and respect that are OA members. This makes me feel good. On the other hand I find the secrecy or the perception of secrecy of the OA a little challenging. As I have stated before in other threads “perception is reality.”

The difficulty I have is BSA spells out everything in policy with no exceptions or at least none that I know about. You can not add or subtract from their guidance. I admit I have not researched the OA because I have not had a reason to at this point. However, that day may come soon with one or two of my sons. So, as a non OA member what is my best written reference source that I can review?

[OldGreyBear]

I would start here

http://www.oa-bsa.org/

[Mrw]

Our mostly ignored troop is in Greater Cleveland as well.

There does seem to be some issues there.

[t305spl]

The OA in my area has once contacted us to schedule a day to come for voting. But to be honest im not in the OA and am very annoyed that when I did contact them to come my SM said no. I think he just wants to wait until his son can because there are already enough scouts that can and want too.

[Scouting179]

I'd like to know why a Vigil is anti-OA. Very interesting. My guess is he's upset about something.

Historical Note: From its founding in 1915 until 1948, OA was an underground organization. There were several others at the time, almost all based on an Indian theme. The original sashes were black and white. Many considered the OA an elitist organization and were opposed to it on that basis. There are those who still feel so. These other orgs gradually went away or were absorbed into the OA when it became an official part of BSA in 1948.

The reasons others mentioned are very plausible.

[Scouting179]

That doesn't surprise me.

[Billiken]

Our mostly ignored troop is in Greater Cleveland as well.

There does seem to be some issues there.

[Billiken]

Actually the Earlier Iniations were Fraternity like Hazing.

My ordeal, in 1973, consisted of a night of camping outdoors (no tent, just a sleeping bag and plastic drop cloth). The next day was spent in silence, working to close down our council camp. The day ended with at the council ring where we were given our sashes. This was followed by one of the best meals I've ever had at a BSA function.

I was never yelled at or belittled, but I'm sure wagionvigil is correct that some ordeals crossed the line into hazing.

[Scouting179]

I think wagion was referring to primarily pre-1948 Ordeals. Mine was also in 1973 and similar to yours and the ones I see today.

[wagionvigil]

Yes Pre 1948! we still have an active original member of the Lodge. Dwayne Welling is his name he also was a Lodge Adviser and section Adviser and Regional Adviser over the years. I took my Ordeal in 63 and the ceremony today is the same as it was then also Brothehood is the same. We do a variation on the Vigil Ceremony BUT our Vigils still kep a Vigil. ALso they are not told ahead of time and if not at a weekend sometime that year they are never pulled and the Vigil is sent back.

[RWSmith]

Mick Scouter asked a question regarding the OA "Trust But Verify" -- which I felt warranted it's own thread...

Go here... OA Question: Trust But Verify (Split Post)