Does your troop follow the zero tolerance policy?

[Guneukitschik]

Sounds like the older boys in your troop learned a valuable lesson....well the fact is that all the boys in Troops all over are learning these same lessons! This is all part of Scouting!

[BM_Crawford]

The bottom line is hazing is not only against bsa policy but its against the law in most places.

(That statement wasnt meant to be offensive I know it sounds a bit.)

[evmori]

The bottom line is hazing is not only against bsa policy but its against the law in most places.

(That statement wasnt meant to be offensive I know it sounds a bit.)

No offense taken. What you posted is fact. But if smoke shifter hunts are considered hazing then we are going to extremes in the definition.

[optimist]

Just a precautionary post. dparker is correct in saying this thread needs to settle down a lot. I'll leave it open for now but with the expectation that discussion will continue in a calmer manner.

[scoutmasterbob]

You are correct optimist, I apologize for my behavior and my personel attacks towards evmori.

It is an emotional issue and my emotions got the better of me.

As a counselor I should have known better.

Please accept my apology.

[dparker]

Ok, maybe we need to see if we can agree on a definition for hazing. Optmist has already given a definition of it. It has a pretty bad connotation. Let's check it's denotation. On m-w.com (Merriam-Webster), it is defined as:

the action of hazing; especially : an initiation process involving harassment.

The verb form is thus defined:

1 a : to harass by exacting unnecessary or disagreeable work b : to harass by banter, ridicule, or criticism. 2 : to haze by way of initiation

If I read 1a right, it would seem that the smoke shifter activity is "unnecessary work", right? Whether it is "harassing" is not totally clear.

Per dictionary.com, hazing definition #2 is:

1. To persecute or harass with meaningless, difficult, or humiliating tasks.

By this definition, it would seem that the smoke shifter activity is hazing. Maybe I am totally misreading the definition though. Per the Guide to Safe Scouting passage quoted earlier by Optimist, I am not sure if we can call the Smokeshifter hazing.

Another point that deserves some discussion is the goal of the Smokeshifter activity. I would assume it is to have fun or to laugh or something along those lines (correct me if I am wrong)? What makes it funny to the boys that know? Why are they laughing? I would really like to hear a response to these questions as they may change my mind or confirm what I was thinking before.