Switching up boys in Patrols

[marksanty]

I'm looking for the pros and cons of mixing up the patrols. Currently we bring in 2 new patrols and keep them in the patrol during their scouting tenure. I'm considering splitting them up and into a mixed patrol every year. These new patrols then would be made up of various age and rank scouts within the patrol. They would then stay in this new patrol for a year and then mix them up again.

Has anyone done this and does this type of patrol switching work? Does this promote newer scouts getting to know older scouts better or does this shoot the entire patrol spirit thing out the door?

Please chime in.

[Scouting179]

IMHO, you need to stick with one method or the other and leave the patrols intact, keep them together when camping, etc. It's okay to merge them later on as kids quit, move away, age out, etc.

[commish3]

I see no pros according to the scouting program. First the boys should decide what patrol they are in and not the leader. The program works best when patrols are formed by scouts of similar ages and skills. every time you re-organize a patrol they have to re-develop as a team and that can takes months to forn new bonds and new relationships before the team becomes an effective operating unit.

For the best results form patrols based on age and skill levels as the handbook lays out with New Scout, Regular, and Venture patrols. Divide scouts by age and skill levels and let them determine their own patrol groupings within each catagory.

I know others may disagree with this, but it is the troop structure recommended and supported by the BSA program, and it works.

[Lynda J]

The boys need the stability of being in the same patrol. They need to learn to work as a unit. And if you change them back and forth they won't be able to do that.
What we are doing now is the boys that have reached 1st Class are breaking out for a part of the meeting and working on merit badges.
The others are working on rank advancement. About the time we get new boys in most of the others have earned 1st Class.

[cballman]

after having my sons patrol divided up after first class and the whole troop with new patrols we lost many of the scouts because you now have kids who are thirteen years old in with the new scouts because some dont care about advancing. it made for a bad program for a little while. now the last three years we have kept the boys together in the patrols we have had many more to stay with our program. so IMHO I think that once the boys have become a patrol the they need to stay as one. but when you have x amount of boys drop out the combine patrols but dont reorganize the whole troop. now I know this is not what a bunch of people wanted to hear but now our troop has grown to over 60 boys that are ACTIVE and showing up for meetings. also this has to do with the great leadership that our troop has.

[DPuck]

Keeping scouts in the same patrol for too long limits the experience and education they would get had they the chance to interact with other scouts. It builds diversity. As patrol leaders they get to experience leading and advancing different scouts which adds to their leadership building, and as scouts they get to be lead and advanced by a multitude of leaders. Also, keeping scouts together by age does not allow for the experienced to directly interact with the new scouts on a regular basis, where it is most important, such as on the trail or at a trip. Each scout should have the boradest experience available. I believe patrol selection and formation is better of democratic then socialistic.

[commish3]

Much of that missed interaction between the new scouts and the older scouts is not as positive an experience for the new scout as a leader might think or expect. One of the reasons for the new scout patrol is to keep these groups more separated for the first year so that the New Scout has an opportunity to gain skills, size and understanding before greater exposure to the older scouts occurs.

Remember this separation is only for the first year to allow for orientation and for gaining basic skills. You have another 6.5 years for the scouts to mingle. But if you don't keep the scout in the troop it will never take place. The New Scout Patrol has far higher retention rates than new scouts in mised poatrols have, especially when the First Class Emphasis program is used.

As far as the scouts mot learning as much by not being in mixed aged groups. I doubt that you can find any evidence to support that. Why do schools not use it if it is so effective in learning?

And even in age group separated patrols as the BSA is designed you still have plenty of opportunities for boys to socialize and interact with the scouts in other patrols (after the first year) such as during PLC, games, instruction times, campfires, and other social times.

[Mick Scouter]

I agree. I have yet to be on a camping experience where older scout are complete with their duties and younger scouts are having problems. At least in our troop there may be separate patrols but it still is one troop. As adult leaders we need to remind the scouts that we are only as strong as the weakest link.

[optimist]

In my ignorance, way back when I first became a Scouter and I didn't have so much gray hair, I did this very thing. My troop grew suddenly and our two patrols became really too big, nine and eleven Scouts each. (Note: it doesn't happen like this all the time but good programs really can attract more boys.) I talked to the Scouts first, explained why I thought it would be a good idea, and really did a first rate job of selling it or so I thought. The next thing I know I had parents coming out of the woodwork and the entire Troop Committee coming down on my head.

commish3 mentioned that the boys are supposed to decide what patrol they want to be in and this is absolutely true. If you think the Scouts might really be interested in it, I'd say present it to the SPL and/or the PLC and get their input. If they think it is a good idea, ask them to discuss it with the troop.

This is dangerous ground -- tread lightly. If there's any question at all, I'd back off, not just because you're violating BSA policy but because you could be doing yourself and your troop a great disservice.

[diamondbackAPL]

frankly, I don't like the idea. great friendships can be made in patrols, and if two good friends were separated, it wouldn't make anybody happy.

[Mrw]

About 4 years ago, we were down to about 6 active boys. As the troop grew over the next couple years to the 35 we now have, we did have to go through some re-arranging to right-size the patrols.

This was done with the knowledge of the boys so they knew it was not arbitrary and would be a one-time thing. Although we assigned the boys to each partol, they were grouped by age, grade and level to put the boys in each group on a fairly even footing with one another within each patrol to minimize the problems caused when one guy thinks he is superior to the others as he is a higher rank.

At this point, the only reason to change boys would be unsolvable personal conflicts or combining groups if we were to loose a few boys.

[DPuck]

BSA poses a unique experience for boys of the ages 10-17 to interact and form bonds that would not normally take place. Schools and sports teams must be broken up by age and ability in order for there to be a balance but this is not the case for the BSA. In fact, if patrols are made up by age, there is an incredible lack of balance. Bonds can be formed between boys of a different age very easily. When i was a scout many of my close friends in the troop, and then through later years outside of scouting, were guys both older and younger than I. In our troop today a lot of the older scouts in highschool now have little buddies in middle school that they, in a way, mentor. This is because they are sleeping in a tent, cooking a meal, climbing a mountian or playing a game with guys different ages.

Much of that missed interaction between the new scouts and the older scouts is not as positive an experience for the new scout as a leader might think or expect.

I believe thats more of a result of individuals then of all interaction bewteen older and younger scouts. You must realize that both the younger guys look up to the older experienced scouts and many of the older guys like the idea of a younger guy idolizing him.

Now, im not saying im against the New Scout patrol. We use one to get the scouts accustomed to the changes between weblos and Boy scouts, to teach basic skills and to get them into the program. However, after a few months (The scouts change over in late Feb, early march until the end of june) the scouts become integrated.

frankly, I don't like the idea. great friendships can be made in patrols, and if two good friends were separated, it wouldn't make anybody happy.

Exactly. But what about the great friendships that could be made if scouts could get to form bonds with other scouts excapt they dont ever get to if the patrols are maintained forever? This is why i say democracy is better then socialism. If the patrols are formed democraticly, based on our own gov'ts elections and then a democratic selection where each scout has a hand in which patrol he is in, then scouts who want to remain together would and it would still remain open for the scouts to make new bonds by experiencing the same things with scouts they would normally never get to. Also, as i said, reforming patrols allows the PLs to learn more by having to lead more personalities. Lastly, if patrols remain together it is very possible that some scouts would not be allowed the chance to step up if there all ready is a established strong leader in the patrol. Back in the 90s i was patrol leader for 3.5 years. (7 elections) If my patrol remained intact throughout those years no one else would have been able to get any leadership time and experience because i had the monopoly on it.