Eagle Palms - Why Wait?

[ThunderingWind]

Why is there a wait for Eagle Palms? I just participated in my first three BORs as a new ASM. These were for boys who just earned their Eagle.

Each of these boys had completed between 35 & 40 MBs prior to completing thier Eagle Project and having the final approval.

So why have a waiting period for the palms for MBs they have already
earned?

I understand a period of time being applied to those earned AFTER the Eagle is awarded. I just can not fathom the "current" standard.

[OldGreyBear]

I may not be understanding your question, but that never stopped me before.

The earning of Palms is a lot more than just getting one palm for every 5 merit badges you earn past the 21 required for Eagle. The first requirement for Palms, is actually that you be Eagle. Then you must be active in the troop/patrol, show leadership, live the scout oath and law, etc.

I guess the answer is, they have to wait because thems the rules

[ThunderingWind]

Now I see and understand.

So next question.......

Should the MBs used to earn the Palm actually be earned after earning Eagle?

[diamondbackAPL]

look in your scout book, page 183.

[Mrw]

No, they can be earned at any time.

It is nice for the boys to earn badges after they earn their Eagle as it shows the younger boys there is still more to do and that Eagle is not the end of the road.

[Mick Scouter]

Good question that needs a solid reply. I do not have the answer but because those are the rules doesn't answer the question.

[Mrw]

If a boy wanted to earn palms and had the extra badges for 3 palms when he earned his Eagle at barely 14, should he just get them all at the same time?

I would think the waiting period for each is so the boys will stay involved in scouts after they earn their Eagle and help the younger ones along. It can also serve as a motivator for boys to finish their Eagle earlier than the week before they turn 18 so they can get the palms.

If you were an Eagle and stayed with the troop for a couple years afterearning it, wouldn't you like to know there are still advancement opportunities available?

[Scouting179]

There is a three month wait between EACH palm. MBs are not the sole purpose of the palm program. They include keeping the Eagle active, developing his leadership (note he doesn't have to have a troop job per se, but show leadership, which is generally interpreted to include activities outside the troop and brings those skills back to the troop, broadening his horizons), showing him there is "life after Eagle". We have two Eagles in this situation right now and both have stayed active.

[Lynda J]

I may be wrong but it is my understanding that SM and ASM could not sit on BOR for their own troop. They can sit of a BOR for an Eagle Board as long as that scout isn't one of their own scouts. For ranks below Eagle they recommend that BOR members be committee members or CO representatives or community leaders involved with scouting.

[Scouting179]

I may be wrong but it is my understanding that SM and ASM could not sit on BOR for their own troop. They can sit of a BOR for an Eagle Board as long as that scout isn't one of their own scouts. For ranks below Eagle they recommend that BOR members be committee members or CO representatives or community leaders involved with scouting.

You are absolutely correct.

[RWSmith]

I thought, technically, only registered Scouters, in fact, members of the Troop's Committee only, could sit on a Scout's BOR for Tenderfoot through Life.

[PaulSWolf]

I may be wrong but it is my understanding that SM and ASM could not sit on BOR for their own troop. They can sit of a BOR for an Eagle Board as long as that scout isn't one of their own scouts. For ranks below Eagle they recommend that BOR members be committee members or CO representatives or community leaders involved with scouting.

For ALL BOR's the SM and ASMs may NOT be members of the Board for their own troop.

The members of an Eagle BOR do not have to even be registered in BSA, so long as at least one member of the BOR is registered and is there representing the District or Council. (So an SM or ASM can serve on such boards, except for their own troop.)

For all other BOR's, the members of the Board MUST be Members of that unit's committee (i.e. registered as MC or CC). So an SM or ASM can serve on a BOR (other than Eagle) for a different unit than the one where he/she serves as an SM or ASM only if he/she is ALSO registered as an MC or CC of the unit where the BOR is being held.

[Scouting179]

Paul:

That appears to be just what Linda and I said, just more explicitly worded. Thanks for the detailed version.

[Mick Scouter]

Very well stated but still confusing. Besides the Eagle BOR are records checked and verified. Sorry, for my same old song Trust but verify.

[Lynda J]

Not in the way that Eagle records are checked. Once a boy has completed his Scout Masters Conference it is up to the SM to pass him on to BOR, the SM is confident that he knows the skills. BOR is not a retest of his skills but a review of how he feels his scouting experience is going. It should be a relaxed environment.
We recently had a BOR where one member of the board made a scout stand at attention through the entire process. He made him demonstrate almost every requirement, and quized him on the others. The review took almost an hour and he refused to pass him to 2nd Class because he was not satisified with the way he explain what it meant to believe in God. I know many adults much less an 11 year old that could put this in words. All the leaders were really upset. And believe me this guy will never sit on another board. The boy knew everything, tied the knots and all. But he left that night almost in tears. We set another review with another board and he did wonderful.

One of the first boards I sat on for the troop was when I was still with the Pack as Committee Chair,and was on the District Committee. The SM's son came in for his Star BOR. Didn't offer to shake hands with the board, flopped down in the chair with his legs sprawled out. Had his hat on backwards, and his shirt was not only filthy but not tucked in. His answers were "yea's, nop's, unha's. When he left we all looked at each other and shook our heads. We talked about him and decided that he simply did not represent how a scout should act. And turned him down. We brought him back in and explained exactly why we had turned him down. He walked out upset. A knock came on the door, e came in and ask if we could please set another date for another BOR. We set one for two weeks later. That time he came in and acted like a scout should have acted. He has since made LIfe and is working on his Eagle.

[Scouting179]

...We recently had a BOR where one member of the board made a scout stand at attention through the entire process. He made him demonstrate almost every requirement, and quized him on the others. The review took almost an hour and he refused to pass him to 2nd Class because he was not satisified with the way he explain what it meant to believe in God. I know many adults much less an 11 year old that could put this in words...

You've related these before, but that's fine.

The chair of this BOR, or even any other member, should have stopped the adult in question, asked the Scout to step outside, and then given the adult the "what for" and Big Tongue Lashing.

[Mick Scouter]

You are correct. I probably would have had a tough time holding back. Prior to our BORs even for seasoned committee members we pass out generic guidelines for members to review.

[ThunderingWind]

Both troops I have been associated with use who ever is around to do a BOR (as long as they are registered). The ONLY big rule that is 100% enforced is the "not your kid" rule. Being new, I mised the rule that states I am not to do BORs from my troop. However, I see this as somewhat impractical in some rural areas. The other rule that we use here is "not your patrol" meaning not any boys for which I serve as the ASM (we have two or three per patrol here).

Just one man's humble opinion. If I would change the rules, I would make them reflect the "real" operational world I in which I msut work.

[Mick Scouter]

Welcome edbloom,

I agree with your complexicities (sp) we too have the same problem. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do to make the program work! However you must make sure you are within the BSA guidelines.

[ThunderingWind]

While what we do may not be as written in the BSA guidelines, I feel we meet the intent by not having a father on the Board and by not being on the board if it the patrol I supervise.

Just one man's opinion...............