New Adult Square Knot for Starting A New Unit

[Billiken]

I heard a rumor that there will be a new square knot awarded to those who start a new Pack, Troop, Crew.

Has anybody else heard about this??????

[Mick Scouter]

Not me! I going to training this weekend and if I remember I will ask.

[riverwalk]

Haha, meaning, I haven't read that anywhere. I do not think so however, as starting new Units already is one criteria for some other Recognitions. Of course, they can introduce/make changes anytime they want or need to. So we'll see.

I think two of the most recent "knots" (remember only represent an actual Award), were the Venturing Leadership, and the International Scouter Awards.

[PaulSWolf]

I was told about the new knot by Dave Richardson (BSA's Religious Relationships Director) at a meeting of local Jewish Committee Chairs which was held in Irving TX over Easter weekend. It is being formally announced at the National Meeting this month.

[Chief J]

This may not be the proper thread, but I would not be supportive of this development for the following reason: ( Before I begin, my experience will most likely be jaded).

In the district that my unit is located, all I hear from the District People is "Let's start new units". "We are going to create units here and here"
Though this is admirable of our District and Commissioner Staff, the one thing they are missing is: They are not helping the existing units.

The idea of putting a new Cub Scout Pack in the same proximity (5 mile radius) as two other Cub Scout Packs who are having problems is foolish in my mind. I beleive if they focused their efforts on the existing units and offered support in strengthening the existing units, the program in the District would be much better. However, their answer is "Let's start a new unit", the result is usually all three end up disappearing and Scouting receives another black eye in the community.

Remeber this is the same District that wants to force Cub Scouts from a pack to have to cross over to the Troop under the same chartered organization (And if there is no troop currently, start a new one).

That being said, I am supportive if the community could benefit from a new unit. Again in my District, Venturing is still under utilized and there are not many venturing options in the District.

Again my opinions (and we all know what opinions are worth)
Chief J

[Billiken]

In the district that my unit is located, all I hear from the District People is "Let's start new units". "We are going to create units here and here"
Though this is admirable of our District and Commissioner Staff, the one thing they are missing is: They are not helping the existing units.

Same thing happened in my district. (I'm District Finance Chairman.)
Remember to get a yearly Quality District Award a new Cub Pack, Troop, and Ventrure Crew need to be started.

Earning Quality District/Council Awards is certainly a positive for professional scouters' careers.

Remeber this is the same District that wants to force Cub Scouts from a pack to have to cross over to the Troop under the same chartered organization (And if there is no troop currently, start a new one).

That is ABSOLUTELY contrary to what's written in the WEBELOS Handbook.
It says that the scout should visit Troops in the area and decide which one to join.

When I ran our FOS Campaign I discovered that of the 38 active units in my district (per council), one had merged with another, three were "dead" according to the unit leader, and for two we could not reach any leader on the charter. So 6 of the 38 were really not active/viable units.

The BSA got slammed recently by NBC for over-stating enrollment in, I believe, New Orleans. It's mentioned on National's web site - press release section.

[Lynda J]

Same thing here. They jump up and start new units and there aren't enough kids to fill the ones that are already going. Then within a year the new one has desolved.

[Billiken]

Same thing here. They jump up and start new units and there aren't enough kids to fill the ones that are already going. Then within a year the new one has desolved.

OR/AND

The existing units (i.e., the boys) are harmed by the "drain" of leaders and scouts to other units.

[ASM-142]

I think this is the same everywhere. I had it where my troop was down to 7 boys. A Webelos den was ready to cross over but the fathers wanted to start their own troop less then 1 mile from where my troop was. In the end the fathers changed their mind and the boys scattered. While they were trying to start their own troop my troop talked to them a number of times. We even told them that after they are in thr troop for a year they can take over as SM and run things.

[riverwalk]

Hmmm, very interesting Paul, thanks. Here in my region (near the upcoming Meeting), some of us are volunteering to help at the Meeting. Maybe I can pick up these hot tips, haha.

[Eamonn]

I really do have to disagree with all those who are anti-new units.
I at times bask in the glory that the District I serve has a better than average percentage of the total available youth in Scouting.
We used to have about 22% TAY in Cub Scouts, 18% in Boy Scouts and 0.38 in Venturing.
We have brought the Cub Scouts to a little over 28%, Boy Scouts to 22% and Venturing to a little under 3%.
While we are ahead of the national average, we are still not delivering Scouting to 70% of the little Lads who could be Cub Scouts.
Packs, Troops and Crews should be like restaurants, there should be one on every corner and the youth should be able to shop around until they find one that suits them.
When we get to 99.99% we will be able to slow down a little.

[riverwalk]

Sadly, we just lost another Pack in my town. They were recently down to one adult, and about seven Youth (different Ranks) when I learned of it. I volunteered to be a Scouter with them, until SNFS to see if it would help, but they merged. So at least the seven stayed "in". I think Cubs is the most important Program area, except for older Youth never in Cubs, so I'm trying to get my fellow Scouters to help these Packs more.

[ASM-142]

The requirements for this new award I found at http://www.jerseyshore-bsa.org/docs/Uni ... 0award.pdf

[optimist]

I'm not "anti-new unit", I'm "anti-new unit solely for the sake of having new units". In my district there are basically around a ten troops and a dozen packs that have been around for a long time. Every year the DE starts four or five new units. Half of the new units fail in the first few months, the other half fail in two to four years. The vast majority of the boys from those failed units never join another unit. How does this benefit Scouting?

I have two brothers in my troop that joined Scouting three times. The first two times were in new units that either never got things rolling or met a few times and folded. When the mother heard about our troop, she literally yelled at me that she didn't want her sons to join Scouting again just to be disappointed again. Even though she wanted her boys to be in a Scout troop, I had to talk her into it. That's just crazy.

Scouting needs to grow. After all, if you're not growing you're dying. But the kind of growth councils promote seems more cancerous than healthy. True growth will only happen if both existing units and new units are given the support they need to maintain strong units both in terms of recruiting support and program support. This is not the case now and as long as this trend continues an awful lot of people are going to go away from Scouting with a bad taste in their mouth.

[ASM-142]

This is well said. I agree 100%

[Chief J]

Well put Optimist.

Chief J

[RWSmith]

WOW! Optimist!

Where's the "What's-the-biggest-problem-facing-Scouting-today..." thread when you need it? You were dead on target!

[diamondbackAPL]

well said, Optimist.

[Buffalo Bill]

With emphasis on PROGRAM--too many other things going on to keep their attention diverted from Scouting.

[riverwalk]

Well, as it has been established, the Boyce Award is one of several new Awards (and "Knots"), that came from the Meeting recently. There is already confusion, and opinion about what the Supplier has produced. The jerseyshore link (thanks BTW), shows the same knot as found recently on ebay. It is reported to be the official Supply item, and I'll check at one of our Shops here. But, it's not the knot (say that ten times) we see on Paul's site and others.

I thought to write you Paul, or Mike and ask about it. So I'm trying it in this forum. Was the usscouts image just a prototype? I know one Scouter that has already made comment to the Chief, regarding this patch. Perhaps someone else has an opinion? Everyone realizes it's just a patch, but it's a big change, haha.